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According to reports, a new EV on average costs $66,000, however, a conversion from ICE to electric power can be done for a relatively low amount of $14,000. 1

According to reports, a new EV on average costs $66,000, however, a conversion from ICE to electric power can be done for a relatively low amount of $14,000. 14k does not sound right for my vehicle. The battery pack for the Ford Lightning is $35+k and I would need a bigger one. It would surely be a lot more for my truck and that isn't counting the controllers, motors, coolant lines and heating system for the battery pack, new wiring and input controls and of course all the labor to do this. If I am going this far I may as well replace the frame to start rust-free and maybe even put extra corrosion mitigation on it. There is a lot of salt on my roads. I think this would be a fun project for a vehicle hobbyist but I can't even fathom doing this for $14k and a $2k rebate is not much of an incentive in my opinion. If I had my own shop I could see starting a project like this but it would surely cost at least 8x what they are suggesting and that does not even factor in warranties. [Edit] I forgot the most important issue. Supply chains. The way things are going globally all of these parts would have to be made and supported in the US, Mexico or Canada to have a reliable future for US residents. I think I personally would wait until the US or Mexico are mass producing 3D printed solid state batteries which should be relatively soon.

drewg123 4y ago
A lot of the conversions that I've seen use smaller packs, like 60KWh or less. And most of them use used Tesla motors and packs. So perhaps this is where the price comes from ... the fact that the pack & motor are used. But $14k does seem quite low, considering the labor involved..
thatfrenchguy 4y ago
It's never going to be any sort of economical to do this on a already existing truck, you'll get complete trash efficiency.
tiagod 4y ago
Yep. No way it's going to cost 14k, even where I live (Portugal) where labour costs are significantly lower than the US, you'll pay a few k for a "simple" engine swap.
freedomben 4y ago
I would wager that most of the people in support of this law didn't even think about your use case (a truck), and if they did, they probably just assumed that nobody with a truck actually needs one (something I hear regularly asserted all the time), and after you give them a use case they'll just say "well most people don't actually need them" as if that makes it ok now to utterly screwing that minority using the law. By the time they're done with it, it won't just be the rebate (carrot of "carrot and stick") they'll use to motivate you. It will also be when gas $30+ per gallon (stick of "carrot and stick") as a result of other policies they'll develop when people aren't moving fast enough to get electified. Between artificial production limits/quotas/taxes/etc the EV cost to own and drive will be a lot more competitive and most people will do what they want just to stop the pain. I think EVs are the natural future as tech improves (and I'm glad for it because we do have to get away from combustion for energy), but the amount of pain and suffering people are willing to inflict on others in order to accelerate the timeline really shocks me sometimes.
- mulmen 4y ago
  Honestly trucks seem like an ideal candidate for EV conversion because they have so much space between the frame rails for batteries. Probably not great for long range towing but seems fine for in-town commute and work. Like a construction or landscaping company. Bonus if you can get Ford Lightning type built-in inverters.
  - LinuxBender 4y ago
    Will Prowse recently did a video on the Lightning [1]. He is running into some problems in his area acquiring the free charging or any charging away from his home. He can of course charge it at his home since he has insane amounts of solar. This could be problematic for construction folks going to job sites that may have limited power as in just enough for the tools and not enough to charge several trucks. This should be interesting to watch how it plays out. [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATyBdJic8-o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATyBdJic8-o
    - 4y ago
ajross 4y ago
> I think this would be a fun project for a vehicle hobbyist but I can't even fathom doing this for $14k and a $2k rebate is not much of an incentive in my opinion. The point to the rebate, FWIW, is to increase uptake at the margins. The assumption is that there is a population of users desiring the change for some external reason, and that a significant number of those are "on the edge" because of cost. So for comparably little public expenditure you can get an amplified signal. Think of the rebate spending as the base current in a transistor. Given that you're already in a population (truck owners) who are heavily anticorrelated with the target population (people who want an EV), you aren't likely to be well served. If the government wanted to get everyone to drive an EV from first principles, they'd just buy you a Rivian.
- mulmen 4y ago
  I have never driven a work truck more than 100 miles in a day. I recognize that some people need to but if I can get 100 miles of range out of a Chevy Silverado with an EV drive train that could be very appealing to a small business. The EV premium just has to be less than the expected lifetime fuel costs.
nimbius 4y ago
Im a master diesel engine mechanic by trade and I can say with all certitude $2000 doesnt begin to cover parts labor and disposal. the engine in a car, even a 20 year old car, is a touchstone of the vehicle. Things like air conditioning, heat, and windshield wipers often only run on vacuum from the engine. traction control, antilock brakes and AWD all rely on engine speed sensors from either the crankpin position or transmission data and have to be considered as well. ECU states in turn send measured return data to things like ECC components (radio, etc..) and even the anti-theft system. Engine data is even a component of the SRS (airbag) system in a lot of cars. I would bill ten or fifteen hours of labor to safely drop the transmission and change an engine. then i would bill you for fluid disposal and parts disposal and we're assuming you have a drop-in replacement kit for the ECU/OBD components youll need to power things like brake lights and turn signals because they wont work without some input on the engine status either. Id also have to have an installer certified for the high voltage stuff, typically billed higher than a normal mechanic because electric cars are still pretty exotic for aftermarket custom maintenance.
AtlasBarfed 4y ago
Sodium Ion chemistries will drop to $40/kwh at pack level, based on bill of materials. So a 100 kwhr battery will be 4,000$, and that is likely overkill for almost all conversions. I would imagine these would be "city car" 100-150 mile range conversions, so probably 40-50kwhr packs and 2,000$. YEs that is OEM supply cost, so we'll see what happens. I think they'll become huge in classic cars, because the EV motor is compact, and the batteries can be placed in flexible ways. Classic car owners can ditch inefficient motors that they have no parts for. It's not like classic car owners routinely drive 1000 miles, they just toot around on the weekends/

drewg123 4y ago

A lot of the conversions that I've seen use smaller packs, like 60KWh or less. And most of them use used Tesla motors and packs. So perhaps this is where the price comes from ... the fact that the pack & motor are used. But $14k does seem quite low, considering the labor involved..

thatfrenchguy 4y ago

It's never going to be any sort of economical to do this on a already existing truck, you'll get complete trash efficiency.

tiagod 4y ago

Yep. No way it's going to cost 14k, even where I live (Portugal) where labour costs are significantly lower than the US, you'll pay a few k for a "simple" engine swap.

freedomben 4y ago

I would wager that most of the people in support of this law didn't even think about your use case (a truck), and if they did, they probably just assumed that nobody with a truck actually needs one (something I hear regularly asserted all the time), and after you give them a use case they'll just say "well most people don't actually need them" as if that makes it ok now to utterly screwing that minority using the law. By the time they're done with it, it won't just be the rebate (carrot of "carrot and stick") they'll use to motivate you. It will also be when gas $30+ per gallon (stick of "carrot and stick") as a result of other policies they'll develop when people aren't moving fast enough to get electified. Between artificial production limits/quotas/taxes/etc the EV cost to own and drive will be a lot more competitive and most people will do what they want just to stop the pain. I think EVs are the natural future as tech improves (and I'm glad for it because we do have to get away from combustion for energy), but the amount of pain and suffering people are willing to inflict on others in order to accelerate the timeline really shocks me sometimes.

mulmen 4y ago
Honestly trucks seem like an ideal candidate for EV conversion because they have so much space between the frame rails for batteries. Probably not great for long range towing but seems fine for in-town commute and work. Like a construction or landscaping company. Bonus if you can get Ford Lightning type built-in inverters.
- LinuxBender 4y ago
  Will Prowse recently did a video on the Lightning [1]. He is running into some problems in his area acquiring the free charging or any charging away from his home. He can of course charge it at his home since he has insane amounts of solar. This could be problematic for construction folks going to job sites that may have limited power as in just enough for the tools and not enough to charge several trucks. This should be interesting to watch how it plays out. [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATyBdJic8-o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATyBdJic8-o
  - 4y ago

ajross 4y ago

> I think this would be a fun project for a vehicle hobbyist but I can't even fathom doing this for $14k and a $2k rebate is not much of an incentive in my opinion. The point to the rebate, FWIW, is to increase uptake at the margins. The assumption is that there is a population of users desiring the change for some external reason, and that a significant number of those are "on the edge" because of cost. So for comparably little public expenditure you can get an amplified signal. Think of the rebate spending as the base current in a transistor. Given that you're already in a population (truck owners) who are heavily anticorrelated with the target population (people who want an EV), you aren't likely to be well served. If the government wanted to get everyone to drive an EV from first principles, they'd just buy you a Rivian.

mulmen 4y ago
I have never driven a work truck more than 100 miles in a day. I recognize that some people need to but if I can get 100 miles of range out of a Chevy Silverado with an EV drive train that could be very appealing to a small business. The EV premium just has to be less than the expected lifetime fuel costs.

nimbius 4y ago

Im a master diesel engine mechanic by trade and I can say with all certitude $2000 doesnt begin to cover parts labor and disposal. the engine in a car, even a 20 year old car, is a touchstone of the vehicle. Things like air conditioning, heat, and windshield wipers often only run on vacuum from the engine. traction control, antilock brakes and AWD all rely on engine speed sensors from either the crankpin position or transmission data and have to be considered as well. ECU states in turn send measured return data to things like ECC components (radio, etc..) and even the anti-theft system. Engine data is even a component of the SRS (airbag) system in a lot of cars. I would bill ten or fifteen hours of labor to safely drop the transmission and change an engine. then i would bill you for fluid disposal and parts disposal and we're assuming you have a drop-in replacement kit for the ECU/OBD components youll need to power things like brake lights and turn signals because they wont work without some input on the engine status either. Id also have to have an installer certified for the high voltage stuff, typically billed higher than a normal mechanic because electric cars are still pretty exotic for aftermarket custom maintenance.

AtlasBarfed 4y ago

Sodium Ion chemistries will drop to $40/kwh at pack level, based on bill of materials. So a 100 kwhr battery will be 4,000$, and that is likely overkill for almost all conversions. I would imagine these would be "city car" 100-150 mile range conversions, so probably 40-50kwhr packs and 2,000$. YEs that is OEM supply cost, so we'll see what happens. I think they'll become huge in classic cars, because the EV motor is compact, and the batteries can be placed in flexible ways. Classic car owners can ditch inefficient motors that they have no parts for. It's not like classic car owners routinely drive 1000 miles, they just toot around on the weekends/