4 ms·

Seeing the UK’s implementation of 15 minute cities, where cars are locked down to zones, movement is tracked by ubiquitous camera surveillance, and residents ha

by Dig1t 4y ago

Seeing the UK’s implementation of 15 minute cities, where cars are locked down to zones, movement is tracked by ubiquitous camera surveillance, and residents have to apply for a special pass to leave their zone. Talk of 15 minute cities in the US makes me nervous. When we talk about 15 minute cities here, do we mean zoning changes to build things differently? Or are we talking about authoritarian enforcement? Edit: Okay maybe what I read was overblown. Seems this is being trialed in Oxford as "traffic filters" but the ubiquitous camera surveillance is certainly part of it. There is also talk of this expanding to other cities in the UK. Though not specifically talked about as apart of the 15 minute city plan, this seems to go along nicely with that concept. Edit: A source: https://www.oxfordstudent.com/2023/01/25/15-minute-city-plans-cause-controversy/ https://www.oxfordstudent.com/2023/01/25/15-minute-city-plan...

throwawaythrow1 4y ago
As someone who lives in the UK, this is news to me. Can you substantiate this please?
- DoughnutHole 4y ago
  I presume he’s talking about the London congestion charge zone. Although he’s certainly being melodramatic.
  - m-watson 4y ago
    I was just reading in Vice[0] about talk like this. I am not saying OP is necessarily saying this but it does seem similar. [0] https://www.vice.com/en/article/m7g898/walkable-15-minute-cities-con https://www.vice.com/en/article/m7g898/walkable-15-minute-ci...
- Dig1t 4y ago
  I admit that the way it was described to me was probably exaggerated, but this is what I'm talking about: https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/23073992.traffic-filters-will-divide-city-15-minute-neighbourhoods/ https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/23073992.traffic-filters-w... "People can drive freely around their own neighbourhood and can apply for a permit to drive through the filters, and into other neighbourhoods, for up to 100 days per year. This equates to an average of two days per week." This is enforced with surveillance cameras. As I said in another comment: it does seem to me that enforcing movement like this and adding bureaucracy to drive through certain places is a solid step in the direction of authoritarianism. The article is titled "Traffic filters will divide city into "15 minute" neighbourhoods"
eptcyka 4y ago
What are you on about?
- lazyasciiart 4y ago
  The wingnut right thinks that “15-minute city” is a global Jewish conspiracy to lock everyone into defenseless small neighborhoods and then I dunno, aliens?
  - Dig1t 4y ago
    idk about conspiracies, I'm not talking about that. Here is an unbiased article describing the scheme: https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/23073992.traffic-filters-will-divide-city-15-minute-neighbourhoods/ https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/23073992.traffic-filters-w... "People can drive freely around their own neighbourhood and can apply for a permit to drive through the filters, and into other neighbourhoods, for up to 100 days per year. This equates to an average of two days per week." This is enforced with surveillance cameras. I am saying that enforcing movement like this and adding bureaucracy to drive through certain places is a solid step in the direction of authoritarianism.
    - lazyasciiart 4y ago
      It’s a congestion charge. Here’s a great link from your article: READ MORE: Council staff abused after conspiracists circulate fake news about traffic filters
      - Dig1t 4y ago
        Well, the article is framed in terms of creating 15 minute neighborhoods: "ROAD blocks stopping most motorists from driving through Oxford city centre will divide the city into six "15 minute" neighbourhoods, a county council travel chief has said." I'm not abusing anyone, and I'm not saying there's a secret cabal trying to control the world. I'm just saying this makes me uneasy because it is reducing freedoms.
PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
My family lives in the UK and they all own cars. None of them have ever had the experience that you're describing. Either you're confused, or making it up, or there's something happening as an experiment in a few cities that you're blowing out of proportion.
- Dig1t 4y ago
  I admit that the way it was described to me was probably exaggerated, but this is what I'm talking about: https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/23073992.traffic-filters-will-divide-city-15-minute-neighbourhoods/ https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/23073992.traffic-filters-w... "People can drive freely around their own neighbourhood and can apply for a permit to drive through the filters, and into other neighbourhoods, for up to 100 days per year. This equates to an average of two days per week." This is enforced with surveillance cameras. As I said in another comment: it does seem to me that enforcing movement like this and adding bureaucracy to drive through certain places is a solid step in the direction of authoritarianism. The article is titled "Traffic filters will divide city into "15 minute" neighbourhoods"
  - PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
    https://www.dazeddigital.com/life-culture/article/57869/1/15-minute-city-dystopian-right-wing-conspiracy-climate-friendly-paradise-tiktok https://www.dazeddigital.com/life-culture/article/57869/1/15... which links to: https://www.oxford.gov.uk/news/article/2332/joint_statement_from_oxfordshire_county_council_and_oxford_city_council_on_oxford_s_traffic_filters https://www.oxford.gov.uk/news/article/2332/joint_statement_... > If residents in the permit areas are not using a permit or run out of permits, they will still be able to drive to any destination in Oxford or elsewhere, whenever they like, as often as they like. Depending on their location and destination, they might have to use a different route to avoid the filters, which would usually be the ring road. The reason we have proposed these changes is because – as everyone who lives and visits Oxford knows – the city has had awful congestion for decades. This is damaging both our economy and our environment, and is making the bus network unviable. Our aim is to reduce traffic levels and congestion, make the buses faster and more reliable, and make cycling and walking safer and more pleasant.
actionfromafar 4y ago
It's unfortunate to mix surveillance with these other things. It's completely orthogonal to other things. (And yes, surveillance is real in London, but not the other things. You can also camera surveil sprawling, car oriented areas, and technology makes it cheaper every year.)
_Wintermute 4y ago
Are you talking about LTNs? They were initially turning some residential roads into cul-de-sacs to limit through traffic, but a minority of motorists feigned concern about emergency service access so many were replaced with no entry signs and cameras, now the same minority are feigning concern about a surveillance state? It's definitely non-locals using small resident roads as short cuts who are now slightly inconvenienced performing mental gymnastics.

by Dig1t 4y ago

throwawaythrow1 4y ago

As someone who lives in the UK, this is news to me. Can you substantiate this please?

DoughnutHole 4y ago
I presume he’s talking about the London congestion charge zone. Although he’s certainly being melodramatic.
- m-watson 4y ago
  I was just reading in Vice[0] about talk like this. I am not saying OP is necessarily saying this but it does seem similar. [0] https://www.vice.com/en/article/m7g898/walkable-15-minute-cities-con https://www.vice.com/en/article/m7g898/walkable-15-minute-ci...
Dig1t 4y ago
I admit that the way it was described to me was probably exaggerated, but this is what I'm talking about: https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/23073992.traffic-filters-will-divide-city-15-minute-neighbourhoods/ https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/23073992.traffic-filters-w... "People can drive freely around their own neighbourhood and can apply for a permit to drive through the filters, and into other neighbourhoods, for up to 100 days per year. This equates to an average of two days per week." This is enforced with surveillance cameras. As I said in another comment: it does seem to me that enforcing movement like this and adding bureaucracy to drive through certain places is a solid step in the direction of authoritarianism. The article is titled "Traffic filters will divide city into "15 minute" neighbourhoods"

eptcyka 4y ago

What are you on about?

lazyasciiart 4y ago
The wingnut right thinks that “15-minute city” is a global Jewish conspiracy to lock everyone into defenseless small neighborhoods and then I dunno, aliens?
- Dig1t 4y ago
  idk about conspiracies, I'm not talking about that. Here is an unbiased article describing the scheme: https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/23073992.traffic-filters-will-divide-city-15-minute-neighbourhoods/ https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/23073992.traffic-filters-w... "People can drive freely around their own neighbourhood and can apply for a permit to drive through the filters, and into other neighbourhoods, for up to 100 days per year. This equates to an average of two days per week." This is enforced with surveillance cameras. I am saying that enforcing movement like this and adding bureaucracy to drive through certain places is a solid step in the direction of authoritarianism.
  - lazyasciiart 4y ago
    It’s a congestion charge. Here’s a great link from your article: READ MORE: Council staff abused after conspiracists circulate fake news about traffic filters
    - Dig1t 4y ago
      Well, the article is framed in terms of creating 15 minute neighborhoods: "ROAD blocks stopping most motorists from driving through Oxford city centre will divide the city into six "15 minute" neighbourhoods, a county council travel chief has said." I'm not abusing anyone, and I'm not saying there's a secret cabal trying to control the world. I'm just saying this makes me uneasy because it is reducing freedoms.

PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago

My family lives in the UK and they all own cars. None of them have ever had the experience that you're describing. Either you're confused, or making it up, or there's something happening as an experiment in a few cities that you're blowing out of proportion.

Dig1t 4y ago
I admit that the way it was described to me was probably exaggerated, but this is what I'm talking about: https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/23073992.traffic-filters-will-divide-city-15-minute-neighbourhoods/ https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/23073992.traffic-filters-w... "People can drive freely around their own neighbourhood and can apply for a permit to drive through the filters, and into other neighbourhoods, for up to 100 days per year. This equates to an average of two days per week." This is enforced with surveillance cameras. As I said in another comment: it does seem to me that enforcing movement like this and adding bureaucracy to drive through certain places is a solid step in the direction of authoritarianism. The article is titled "Traffic filters will divide city into "15 minute" neighbourhoods"
- PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
  https://www.dazeddigital.com/life-culture/article/57869/1/15-minute-city-dystopian-right-wing-conspiracy-climate-friendly-paradise-tiktok https://www.dazeddigital.com/life-culture/article/57869/1/15... which links to: https://www.oxford.gov.uk/news/article/2332/joint_statement_from_oxfordshire_county_council_and_oxford_city_council_on_oxford_s_traffic_filters https://www.oxford.gov.uk/news/article/2332/joint_statement_... > If residents in the permit areas are not using a permit or run out of permits, they will still be able to drive to any destination in Oxford or elsewhere, whenever they like, as often as they like. Depending on their location and destination, they might have to use a different route to avoid the filters, which would usually be the ring road. The reason we have proposed these changes is because – as everyone who lives and visits Oxford knows – the city has had awful congestion for decades. This is damaging both our economy and our environment, and is making the bus network unviable. Our aim is to reduce traffic levels and congestion, make the buses faster and more reliable, and make cycling and walking safer and more pleasant.

actionfromafar 4y ago

It's unfortunate to mix surveillance with these other things. It's completely orthogonal to other things. (And yes, surveillance is real in London, but not the other things. You can also camera surveil sprawling, car oriented areas, and technology makes it cheaper every year.)

_Wintermute 4y ago

Are you talking about LTNs? They were initially turning some residential roads into cul-de-sacs to limit through traffic, but a minority of motorists feigned concern about emergency service access so many were replaced with no entry signs and cameras, now the same minority are feigning concern about a surveillance state? It's definitely non-locals using small resident roads as short cuts who are now slightly inconvenienced performing mental gymnastics.