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It's not directly related to the recent spike in prices, especially considering that a heat pump installation is very expensive in itself and potentially disrup

It's not directly related to the recent spike in prices, especially considering that a heat pump installation is very expensive in itself and potentially disruptive. Rather, it's a combination wanting to get to net zero, so no emissions, with the big problem of generating enough green electricity. A heat pump system has no emissions and consumes much less electricity than an electric boiler/electric heater.

Thlom 4y ago
I replaced my old air-to-air heat pump with a new one last year. Cost me in total around $3000-$4000. Might have been a bit more expensive if it was a completely new install depending on how it would be installed, but not too much more expensive. Might be more expensive in countries where you are using gas boilers as it sounds like your heating setup is much more complex than where I live.
- mytailorisrich 4y ago
  Here in the UK, I think the cost of installing a new heat pump, bearing in mind that it's an installation from scratch, starts at about £10k ($12k as today's rate) to several tens of thousands. A ground source heat pump (which seem to be the ones pushed by the gov?) is probably £15k to £30k if you can install one at all. Replacing an existing gas boiler, which is what most people have, is probably around £2k or even less in simple cases. I had mine replaced 2 years ago with the new one installed on a different floor so a fair amount of plumbing was required, and it 'only' cost me £3k. There are government subsidies but it's still much more expensive in the end. I think they are simply too expensive and impractical to install for most people.
  - notacoward 4y ago
    FWIW, I just installed two heat pumps in a 3100sf house in the US northeast this summer. We already had ducted AC. The main unit was US$17K and the mini-split for the master bedroom was US$6K. There a US$10K state rebate, but we'll probably only get 70% of that because we've retained the old heating system as a backup and for water, so total cost is US$16K. These are cold-climate units, both rated down to -4°F but I haven't actually made them work below 20°F yet. Next year I'll probably set the aux cutover temperature to something lower and see how it goes. Year after that we'll probably install solar (plus wind if the technology for that has moved along far enough) and switch to all-electric everything. BTW my town has an all-electric mandate for new construction already, and there's a lot of that. There's also a bylaw that takes effect in 2025/2026 banning gas-powered landscaping equipment.
    - rootusrootus 4y ago
      I think prices have spiked. Two years ago I installed a new heat pump to replace an old failing 5-ton air conditioner (which was paired with a high efficiency natural gas furnace; I kept the furnace as backup instead of relying on electric strips). It was $6K altogether. Was just going to replace the A/C with a new one, but the differential was $1500 and so I figured why not. OTOH, a few months ago my stepmother installed minisplits after getting quoted $22K to install a whole-home forced air heat pump (going from no forced air at all, so part of that cost was ducting, though it's a single story ranch house so not terribly difficult). Somewhere between those two points, prices went insane.
      - slavik81 4y ago
        What heat pump did you get? I wanted to get a heat pump, but I ultimately ended up just buying AC. I was told it was not possible to pair with an existing furnace because heat pump control systems were proprietary and incompatible with a standard furnace control.
  - pjc50 4y ago
    I've just signed up to the Scottish government subsidized scheme for air source heat pumps, so I'll report back to HN on this.
  - gambiting 4y ago
    Which I absolutely don't get. I just had a mini split unit installed at our house here in North East, paid £1500 total with installation, and damn that thing throws a lot of heat - I literally stopped using our gas boiler, it's more efficient(and cheaper!!!!) to use this unit for heating than to burn gas. It uses like 800W of power when running but produces ~4kW of heat. I imagine the "proper" heat pump costs a lot because it has to integrate into your central heating - heat and pump water etc. But I also imagine for a lot of people in this country 2-3 mini splits like this one would be absolutely sufficient, wouldn't cost a fortune, and would save them money(plus they can be used for cooling when needed).
bobthepanda 4y ago
They are also kind of a 2 in 1 appliance, in that they can run in reverse and cool your home, and are much more efficient at that than traditional ACs. In the US where AC is common, summer is generally peak electricity usage. I suspect this will become true in Europe as well with the heatwaves becoming a regular occurrence.
- rootusrootus 4y ago
  > they can run in reverse and cool your home, and are much more efficient at that than traditional ACs. I'd love to see a source on that. There is very little technological difference between an air conditioner and a heat pump aside from refrigerant reversing valves that allow changing which end is the condenser and which the evaporator.
  - Volundr 4y ago
    A heat pump is an air conditioner that can run in reverse. Put another way, an air conditioner is a marketing term for a specific kind of heat pump. Your correct that there is no inherit efficiency different. Perhaps what was meant is that they are much more efficient than traditional resistance heating?
    - bobthepanda 4y ago
      I guess to clarify, where I've lived the most common type of AC is a window-mounted unit. IIRC those are generally less efficient than the heat pumps getting installed today, to the point where my family got paid by our utility to replace the window units with them.
  - Kirby64 4y ago
    I think as a general statement it's true, however the causal reason for that is not because they're heat pumps, it's because of the market for heat pumps is different. If you poll the current installed base for HVAC, I suspect you'd find that the (vast) majority of systems are minimum SEER rated (i.e., least efficient) systems, so SEER 13/14 (just became SEER 14 this year). In comparison, if you're already paying the premium for the heat pump system, likely you also pay an additional premium for a higher SEER unit. Also, what I've seen when doing some online shopping that most heat pump systems marketed seem to be higher SEER. Likely, because the cost associated with additional heat pump stuff drives into a higher end market where you 'might as well' make them higher SEER as well (with inverter compressors, variable fan speeds, etc).

Thlom 4y ago

I replaced my old air-to-air heat pump with a new one last year. Cost me in total around $3000-$4000. Might have been a bit more expensive if it was a completely new install depending on how it would be installed, but not too much more expensive. Might be more expensive in countries where you are using gas boilers as it sounds like your heating setup is much more complex than where I live.

mytailorisrich 4y ago
Here in the UK, I think the cost of installing a new heat pump, bearing in mind that it's an installation from scratch, starts at about £10k ($12k as today's rate) to several tens of thousands. A ground source heat pump (which seem to be the ones pushed by the gov?) is probably £15k to £30k if you can install one at all. Replacing an existing gas boiler, which is what most people have, is probably around £2k or even less in simple cases. I had mine replaced 2 years ago with the new one installed on a different floor so a fair amount of plumbing was required, and it 'only' cost me £3k. There are government subsidies but it's still much more expensive in the end. I think they are simply too expensive and impractical to install for most people.
- notacoward 4y ago
  FWIW, I just installed two heat pumps in a 3100sf house in the US northeast this summer. We already had ducted AC. The main unit was US$17K and the mini-split for the master bedroom was US$6K. There a US$10K state rebate, but we'll probably only get 70% of that because we've retained the old heating system as a backup and for water, so total cost is US$16K. These are cold-climate units, both rated down to -4°F but I haven't actually made them work below 20°F yet. Next year I'll probably set the aux cutover temperature to something lower and see how it goes. Year after that we'll probably install solar (plus wind if the technology for that has moved along far enough) and switch to all-electric everything. BTW my town has an all-electric mandate for new construction already, and there's a lot of that. There's also a bylaw that takes effect in 2025/2026 banning gas-powered landscaping equipment.
  - rootusrootus 4y ago
    I think prices have spiked. Two years ago I installed a new heat pump to replace an old failing 5-ton air conditioner (which was paired with a high efficiency natural gas furnace; I kept the furnace as backup instead of relying on electric strips). It was $6K altogether. Was just going to replace the A/C with a new one, but the differential was $1500 and so I figured why not. OTOH, a few months ago my stepmother installed minisplits after getting quoted $22K to install a whole-home forced air heat pump (going from no forced air at all, so part of that cost was ducting, though it's a single story ranch house so not terribly difficult). Somewhere between those two points, prices went insane.
    - slavik81 4y ago
      What heat pump did you get? I wanted to get a heat pump, but I ultimately ended up just buying AC. I was told it was not possible to pair with an existing furnace because heat pump control systems were proprietary and incompatible with a standard furnace control.
- pjc50 4y ago
  I've just signed up to the Scottish government subsidized scheme for air source heat pumps, so I'll report back to HN on this.
- gambiting 4y ago
  Which I absolutely don't get. I just had a mini split unit installed at our house here in North East, paid £1500 total with installation, and damn that thing throws a lot of heat - I literally stopped using our gas boiler, it's more efficient(and cheaper!!!!) to use this unit for heating than to burn gas. It uses like 800W of power when running but produces ~4kW of heat. I imagine the "proper" heat pump costs a lot because it has to integrate into your central heating - heat and pump water etc. But I also imagine for a lot of people in this country 2-3 mini splits like this one would be absolutely sufficient, wouldn't cost a fortune, and would save them money(plus they can be used for cooling when needed).

bobthepanda 4y ago

They are also kind of a 2 in 1 appliance, in that they can run in reverse and cool your home, and are much more efficient at that than traditional ACs. In the US where AC is common, summer is generally peak electricity usage. I suspect this will become true in Europe as well with the heatwaves becoming a regular occurrence.

rootusrootus 4y ago
> they can run in reverse and cool your home, and are much more efficient at that than traditional ACs. I'd love to see a source on that. There is very little technological difference between an air conditioner and a heat pump aside from refrigerant reversing valves that allow changing which end is the condenser and which the evaporator.
- Volundr 4y ago
  A heat pump is an air conditioner that can run in reverse. Put another way, an air conditioner is a marketing term for a specific kind of heat pump. Your correct that there is no inherit efficiency different. Perhaps what was meant is that they are much more efficient than traditional resistance heating?
  - bobthepanda 4y ago
    I guess to clarify, where I've lived the most common type of AC is a window-mounted unit. IIRC those are generally less efficient than the heat pumps getting installed today, to the point where my family got paid by our utility to replace the window units with them.
- Kirby64 4y ago
  I think as a general statement it's true, however the causal reason for that is not because they're heat pumps, it's because of the market for heat pumps is different. If you poll the current installed base for HVAC, I suspect you'd find that the (vast) majority of systems are minimum SEER rated (i.e., least efficient) systems, so SEER 13/14 (just became SEER 14 this year). In comparison, if you're already paying the premium for the heat pump system, likely you also pay an additional premium for a higher SEER unit. Also, what I've seen when doing some online shopping that most heat pump systems marketed seem to be higher SEER. Likely, because the cost associated with additional heat pump stuff drives into a higher end market where you 'might as well' make them higher SEER as well (with inverter compressors, variable fan speeds, etc).