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This post is so deeply antisocial it makes me sad. Maybe I am just not born to be a programmer like he is, but I invariably have more fun and I am more producti

This post is so deeply antisocial it makes me sad. Maybe I am just not born to be a programmer like he is, but I invariably have more fun and I am more productive and creative when working with other people. That said, I enjoy how he so poignantly describes coding as antisocial at its core. With people, you need to make compromises and concessions all the time. Code on the other hand has no feelings, and deserves no pity. Maybe this is why so many programmers struggle with being social. I feel like there is a message about work/life balance in there. Or rather, code/empathy balance. Can you realdily switch between ruthless coding mode and caring people mode? How do you deal with that contrast?

b14ck 15y ago
I enjoy working with other people, however, I do best when working with them through IRC, software, etc. For instance, in both my professional and personal life, the most successful projects I've worked on with others have been those in which communication was primarily done through pull requests on Github, or IRC conversations late at night. Maybe it is antisocial, but I just can't seem to function as well working in person with other people as I do on my own. What sort of stuff do you do better around others? I'm genuinely interested.
- kevinchen 15y ago
  You guys...this is about his programming practices. He never said that this has to apply to everyone.
vellum 15y ago
His method of coding works for him because he’s introverted. "As (odd?) as that may be, being around other people seems to really drain my energy and sap my creativeness. Despite my best efforts, I just don't have the same energy around other people as I do by myself." That's the real definition of introversion. It's not just being shy. Some people feel energetic when they work with other people in a bullpen (extroverts). There was an Atlantic article posted here that explained more. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=561311 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=561311
irahul 15y ago
> This post is so deeply antisocial it makes me sad The post is describing what works for him. While in the midst of something, mails, random greetings, IM pings are extremely irritating. When I was at my day job, I always had my headphones to cut myself from the open cube farm. When you are working on something, apart from the required inputs and division of responsibility, it isn't a group activity. If you find it antisocial, well, that's how it is. Programming isn't alone in that regard. Think sculpting, painting, theorem proving, creating music etc. All of these activities can, and are generally done as a team, but the individual's work is his own. > I invariably have more fun and I am more productive and creative when working with other people. I am curious. How else you suggest you go about programming? > Maybe this is why so many programmers struggle with being social. Since your premise was lone wolf nature of coding, I presume you will be making the same conclusions about sculpting and painting? I don't think you have a valid inference here. > I feel like there is a message about work/life balance in there It's simple - when you are working, you aren't free to take long and/or frequent calls from family/friends; or go fetch grocery even if you are working from home. When you are at home, unless it's a serious outage, you don't take unnecessary calls relating to work.
- bmj 15y ago
  It's simple - when you are working, you aren't free to take long and/or frequent calls from family/friends; or go fetch grocery even if you are working from home. When you are at home, unless it's a serious outage, you don't take unnecessary calls relating to work. This, of course, is good advice, and fits well to any sort of individual endeavor, being programming, painting, or wrenching on your bike. I think many people react negatively to articles like this one because they read it as prescriptive (that is, this is how you _should_ work as a programmer) rather than _descriptive_ (that is, this is what works for me as a programmer, taking into account my character). Generally, I work best at home, free of distractions, but there are times when collaborative work at the office is also productive. YMMV.
wladimir 15y ago
Yes. There is an essential chasm there. Treating people like computers/code means you are a sociopath, and treating code like people means you won't get it to do anything. Code needs control, not empathy. We programmers are stuck in the middle, pulled by either extreme. I wonder if we will bridge that gap in the 21th century (and how?). To me, it is a much more worthy goal then "making the damn things even faster and smaller" (but, see also my reply here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3474387 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3474387).
GeneralMaximus 15y ago
Wanting to be alone when you're working is not antisocial. If you claim to be able to do serious work while being constantly interrupted by people -- whether on IM, IRC or face to face -- then one of three possibilities exist: 1. You are a superhuman with Buddha-like concentration. 2. You're lying. 3. You're doing trivial work. However, it's a major problem if the OP goes out of his way to avoid communicating with people after his work session. In that case, none of the work he did has value. Code that other people can't understand is worse than no code at all. There is a time for work and a time for communicating your work to other people. You cannot do both at the same time.

b14ck 15y ago

I enjoy working with other people, however, I do best when working with them through IRC, software, etc. For instance, in both my professional and personal life, the most successful projects I've worked on with others have been those in which communication was primarily done through pull requests on Github, or IRC conversations late at night. Maybe it is antisocial, but I just can't seem to function as well working in person with other people as I do on my own. What sort of stuff do you do better around others? I'm genuinely interested.

kevinchen 15y ago
You guys...this is about his programming practices. He never said that this has to apply to everyone.

vellum 15y ago

His method of coding works for him because he’s introverted. "As (odd?) as that may be, being around other people seems to really drain my energy and sap my creativeness. Despite my best efforts, I just don't have the same energy around other people as I do by myself." That's the real definition of introversion. It's not just being shy. Some people feel energetic when they work with other people in a bullpen (extroverts). There was an Atlantic article posted here that explained more. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=561311 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=561311

irahul 15y ago

> This post is so deeply antisocial it makes me sad The post is describing what works for him. While in the midst of something, mails, random greetings, IM pings are extremely irritating. When I was at my day job, I always had my headphones to cut myself from the open cube farm. When you are working on something, apart from the required inputs and division of responsibility, it isn't a group activity. If you find it antisocial, well, that's how it is. Programming isn't alone in that regard. Think sculpting, painting, theorem proving, creating music etc. All of these activities can, and are generally done as a team, but the individual's work is his own. > I invariably have more fun and I am more productive and creative when working with other people. I am curious. How else you suggest you go about programming? > Maybe this is why so many programmers struggle with being social. Since your premise was lone wolf nature of coding, I presume you will be making the same conclusions about sculpting and painting? I don't think you have a valid inference here. > I feel like there is a message about work/life balance in there It's simple - when you are working, you aren't free to take long and/or frequent calls from family/friends; or go fetch grocery even if you are working from home. When you are at home, unless it's a serious outage, you don't take unnecessary calls relating to work.

bmj 15y ago
It's simple - when you are working, you aren't free to take long and/or frequent calls from family/friends; or go fetch grocery even if you are working from home. When you are at home, unless it's a serious outage, you don't take unnecessary calls relating to work. This, of course, is good advice, and fits well to any sort of individual endeavor, being programming, painting, or wrenching on your bike. I think many people react negatively to articles like this one because they read it as prescriptive (that is, this is how you _should_ work as a programmer) rather than _descriptive_ (that is, this is what works for me as a programmer, taking into account my character). Generally, I work best at home, free of distractions, but there are times when collaborative work at the office is also productive. YMMV.

wladimir 15y ago

Yes. There is an essential chasm there. Treating people like computers/code means you are a sociopath, and treating code like people means you won't get it to do anything. Code needs control, not empathy. We programmers are stuck in the middle, pulled by either extreme. I wonder if we will bridge that gap in the 21th century (and how?). To me, it is a much more worthy goal then "making the damn things even faster and smaller" (but, see also my reply here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3474387 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3474387).

GeneralMaximus 15y ago

Wanting to be alone when you're working is not antisocial. If you claim to be able to do serious work while being constantly interrupted by people -- whether on IM, IRC or face to face -- then one of three possibilities exist: 1. You are a superhuman with Buddha-like concentration. 2. You're lying. 3. You're doing trivial work. However, it's a major problem if the OP goes out of his way to avoid communicating with people after his work session. In that case, none of the work he did has value. Code that other people can't understand is worse than no code at all. There is a time for work and a time for communicating your work to other people. You cannot do both at the same time.