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This project seems like a huge mess. What exactly is the "risk" to individuals that needs to be managed if the currency is backed by the BoE and Stable? Also,

This project seems like a huge mess. What exactly is the "risk" to individuals that needs to be managed if the currency is backed by the BoE and Stable? Also, no anonymity. Also, not decentralised. Also, the central bank can create and destroy or freeze money at any point including just your account. Also, total access to the police and 101 other orgs without any need for warrants etc. Also, you will need a bank to access this (so what's the point at all really?) So after all this time and energy, the bank of england has invented... bank accounts. Only with more latency and no interest and a cap on balances.

2Gkashmiri 4y ago
>So after all this time and energy, the bank of england has invented... bank accounts. Only with more latency and no interest and a cap on balances. same with india as well for their CBDC. the reason for crypto and blockchain was to AVOID the conventional banking chanels that are regulated, that are monitored, modifiable at the whims of someone, cross border, cross platform, decentralized, across geographies. its like CBDC took the best of cryto/blockchain and shoved themselves inbetween just to remain relevant because otherwise they certainly would've been. if all my money is on BTC, there is no way a court or a government could order someone to take that from me. before someone says "Abuse", well you are talking as if HSBC, DW, etc etc and all the banks in the world haven't engaged in money laundering so why is this difficult to understand?
- LatteLazy 4y ago
  I am not a crypto fan boy, and I don't really care about (folding) cash vs cards etc. But there is a part of me that worries a bit about some future government/central-bank deciding to implement things like haircuts and negative interest rates. Actual cash / crypto is a nice way to actually prevent that at least. Interestingly one of the sections of Cloud Atlas is set in a future where the government REQUIRE that citizens spend all their cash by the end of the payment period. You need a special license to "save" or invest. I could see that being a policy to "stimulate demand" or whatever...
  - 2Gkashmiri 4y ago
    sure. i was part of the 2012-14 crowd so i've seen a lot. anyway, the point here is, these governments are taking big brother steps because that is what seems reasonable to them. Remember facebook libra? it wanted piece of crypto pie by needlessly being a part of it "just because". These are yet another attempts. I am pretty sure it will be forced. No one has been able to sell me this one idea. Conventional banking already has all the surveilance, account freezing, spending limits, interest rates, collateral, instant use so why bring blockchain?
- hakfoo 4y ago
  Maybe they're just looking at a completely different audience/value proposition. A lot of the problems in finance, for ordinary "happy path" consumers-- are still begging for "faster horses" solutions. Not everyone is on some grand philosophical argument about the nature of money and the relative power of individual, the state, and the bank. There are at least two obvious pain points even a janky MVP CBDC has the potential to solve: * International transfers are expensive and complicated, which makes them impractical for small transactions. The fact there's no good answer for "how does someone in Arizona send 10 GBP to someone in Manchester" seems to demand a solution. Something like PayPal is probably the least objectionable option, and I believe even their 'no guarantees, intended for family only' modes have fees for international these days. * A state entity can service all legal players, while private banks are keen to avoid risky/expensive customers. If you know everyone in the country has some form of deposit account, you can eliminate a lot of hassle for payroll and payment processing by using that as the least common denominator. Perhaps the "sweep to commercial banks" angle is less about making the BoE relevant, and more about avoiding appearing as a threat to commercial banks, that there won't be large balances piling up representing untapped business for them.
  - 2Gkashmiri 4y ago
    look up "UPI" a model of payment transfer made out of india. This is currently being exported to many countries around the world. It works like magic ON TOP of existing banking infra and all you need is an app. Nothing else. Once you see and use UPI, everything else just feels stupid like a tesla racing a horse cart
    - hakfoo 4y ago
      I'm surprised how forward-thinking India is with their financial regulations. Working in a peripherally related field, I had to go down the rabbit-hole with their E-Mandate concepts and it seemed like a feature that prioritized user consent over making it easy to transact-- in other words, something that would never get traction in the US. What is giving them an edge there? Is it a "we're late to market, so we don't have to repeat the mistakes we saw everyone else doing" thing? Is it a "let's throw up intentional hoops to make domestic products more competitive" play?

2Gkashmiri 4y ago

>So after all this time and energy, the bank of england has invented... bank accounts. Only with more latency and no interest and a cap on balances. same with india as well for their CBDC. the reason for crypto and blockchain was to AVOID the conventional banking chanels that are regulated, that are monitored, modifiable at the whims of someone, cross border, cross platform, decentralized, across geographies. its like CBDC took the best of cryto/blockchain and shoved themselves inbetween just to remain relevant because otherwise they certainly would've been. if all my money is on BTC, there is no way a court or a government could order someone to take that from me. before someone says "Abuse", well you are talking as if HSBC, DW, etc etc and all the banks in the world haven't engaged in money laundering so why is this difficult to understand?

LatteLazy 4y ago
I am not a crypto fan boy, and I don't really care about (folding) cash vs cards etc. But there is a part of me that worries a bit about some future government/central-bank deciding to implement things like haircuts and negative interest rates. Actual cash / crypto is a nice way to actually prevent that at least. Interestingly one of the sections of Cloud Atlas is set in a future where the government REQUIRE that citizens spend all their cash by the end of the payment period. You need a special license to "save" or invest. I could see that being a policy to "stimulate demand" or whatever...
- 2Gkashmiri 4y ago
  sure. i was part of the 2012-14 crowd so i've seen a lot. anyway, the point here is, these governments are taking big brother steps because that is what seems reasonable to them. Remember facebook libra? it wanted piece of crypto pie by needlessly being a part of it "just because". These are yet another attempts. I am pretty sure it will be forced. No one has been able to sell me this one idea. Conventional banking already has all the surveilance, account freezing, spending limits, interest rates, collateral, instant use so why bring blockchain?
hakfoo 4y ago
Maybe they're just looking at a completely different audience/value proposition. A lot of the problems in finance, for ordinary "happy path" consumers-- are still begging for "faster horses" solutions. Not everyone is on some grand philosophical argument about the nature of money and the relative power of individual, the state, and the bank. There are at least two obvious pain points even a janky MVP CBDC has the potential to solve: * International transfers are expensive and complicated, which makes them impractical for small transactions. The fact there's no good answer for "how does someone in Arizona send 10 GBP to someone in Manchester" seems to demand a solution. Something like PayPal is probably the least objectionable option, and I believe even their 'no guarantees, intended for family only' modes have fees for international these days. * A state entity can service all legal players, while private banks are keen to avoid risky/expensive customers. If you know everyone in the country has some form of deposit account, you can eliminate a lot of hassle for payroll and payment processing by using that as the least common denominator. Perhaps the "sweep to commercial banks" angle is less about making the BoE relevant, and more about avoiding appearing as a threat to commercial banks, that there won't be large balances piling up representing untapped business for them.
- 2Gkashmiri 4y ago
  look up "UPI" a model of payment transfer made out of india. This is currently being exported to many countries around the world. It works like magic ON TOP of existing banking infra and all you need is an app. Nothing else. Once you see and use UPI, everything else just feels stupid like a tesla racing a horse cart
  - hakfoo 4y ago
    I'm surprised how forward-thinking India is with their financial regulations. Working in a peripherally related field, I had to go down the rabbit-hole with their E-Mandate concepts and it seemed like a feature that prioritized user consent over making it easy to transact-- in other words, something that would never get traction in the US. What is giving them an edge there? Is it a "we're late to market, so we don't have to repeat the mistakes we saw everyone else doing" thing? Is it a "let's throw up intentional hoops to make domestic products more competitive" play?