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For a long time the main problem of heat pumps was that while they are more efficient, a kilowatthour of gas or oil is much cheaper than a kilowatthour of elect

For a long time the main problem of heat pumps was that while they are more efficient, a kilowatthour of gas or oil is much cheaper than a kilowatthour of electricity. But in the last two years natural gas prizes have gone crazy, removing that price disadvantage. Of course heat pumps emitting no particulates and being able to run on renewables are also good reasons, especially as the health impact of living in cities with high PM2.5 values becomes clearer. But I don't think those are the primary drivers.

PragmaticPulp 4y ago
Heat pump technology has also improved significantly. You can now buy heat pumps that remain efficient down to very low temperatures, which makes them appropriate for a larger range of climates now. Many models are in very high demand. Some of the units I looked at recently were back ordered so far that I was told to pick something else if I expected to have it within the year. The demand is very high because the technology is good. It’s not a campaign or conspiracy.
- bmicraft 4y ago
  Yeah it almost makes the opposite of sense. If manufacturers are already backordered a year in advance why would they still throw money at marketing
  - bluGill 4y ago
    The war in Ukraine has resulted in a real push to get off of oil/gas based heating, on top of global warming concerns that have already been doing that. There are lots of different groups looking to push heat pumps for the above reasons. Governments are concerned about both war and global warming. Ukraine supporters are concerned about Russia getting more money (to wage more war). Green activists are concerned about global warming. All have their own reasons to push heat pumps on everyone.
mytailorisrich 4y ago
It's not directly related to the recent spike in prices, especially considering that a heat pump installation is very expensive in itself and potentially disruptive. Rather, it's a combination wanting to get to net zero, so no emissions, with the big problem of generating enough green electricity. A heat pump system has no emissions and consumes much less electricity than an electric boiler/electric heater.
- Thlom 4y ago
  I replaced my old air-to-air heat pump with a new one last year. Cost me in total around $3000-$4000. Might have been a bit more expensive if it was a completely new install depending on how it would be installed, but not too much more expensive. Might be more expensive in countries where you are using gas boilers as it sounds like your heating setup is much more complex than where I live.
  - mytailorisrich 4y ago
    Here in the UK, I think the cost of installing a new heat pump, bearing in mind that it's an installation from scratch, starts at about £10k ($12k as today's rate) to several tens of thousands. A ground source heat pump (which seem to be the ones pushed by the gov?) is probably £15k to £30k if you can install one at all. Replacing an existing gas boiler, which is what most people have, is probably around £2k or even less in simple cases. I had mine replaced 2 years ago with the new one installed on a different floor so a fair amount of plumbing was required, and it 'only' cost me £3k. There are government subsidies but it's still much more expensive in the end. I think they are simply too expensive and impractical to install for most people.
    - notacoward 4y ago
      FWIW, I just installed two heat pumps in a 3100sf house in the US northeast this summer. We already had ducted AC. The main unit was US$17K and the mini-split for the master bedroom was US$6K. There a US$10K state rebate, but we'll probably only get 70% of that because we've retained the old heating system as a backup and for water, so total cost is US$16K. These are cold-climate units, both rated down to -4°F but I haven't actually made them work below 20°F yet. Next year I'll probably set the aux cutover temperature to something lower and see how it goes. Year after that we'll probably install solar (plus wind if the technology for that has moved along far enough) and switch to all-electric everything. BTW my town has an all-electric mandate for new construction already, and there's a lot of that. There's also a bylaw that takes effect in 2025/2026 banning gas-powered landscaping equipment.
oceanplexian 4y ago
An overlooked benefit is that they actually improve comfort over a boiler in a dry climate, so if you live somewhere with low humidity they help keep the air less dry. They also give you heating and cooling.. for places that don’t have Air Conditioning it’s a worthwhile upgrade.
- megaman821 4y ago
  I assume in home that don't have ACs, that they also don't have ducts. Do these ductless homes filter their air, control home humidity, or bring in fresh air from outside?
  - wongarsu 4y ago
    "Ductless homes" usually circulate hot water through radiators. If you switch to a heat pump, nothing's stopping you from circulating cold water in the summer, though obviously there is a limit on the temperature delta (you can heat water much more than you can cool it). Bringing in fresh air is a manual process (open the windows), and filtering air or controling humidity is then left to seperate appliances, if done at all. Though small fans to the outside for forced ventilation are gaining some popularity for giving you automatic air exchange and filtration.
    - benplumley 4y ago
      > nothing's stopping you from circulating cold water in the summer Condensation is - air conditioners have an integrated drip tray which drains to the outside, but if you ran chilled water through radiators they'd all make puddles of condensation on the floor. Retrofitting drains might be possible but I've never seen one and I can't imagine it'd be cost-effective vs installing mini-splits.
    - sbradford26 4y ago
      There are many reasons why you can't just circulate cold water though a radiator to cool. As another commenter stated you will get large amounts of condensation. But the other reason is that you do not get nearly as effective of convection currents with cool versus heating. Your radiators utilize convection currents to circulate the warm air around the room. Running chilled water though the a radiator would be like having an ice cube in the corner of the room. It isn't going to cool the whole room down and will get water everywhere.
quickthrowman 4y ago
NG (in the US) is now about 70-80% cheaper than it was at the recent highs.
- brewdad 4y ago
  And my local utilities just got approved for massive rate increases locking in those higher prices. Of course, I probably wasn't paying the full costs this past year.

PragmaticPulp 4y ago

Heat pump technology has also improved significantly. You can now buy heat pumps that remain efficient down to very low temperatures, which makes them appropriate for a larger range of climates now. Many models are in very high demand. Some of the units I looked at recently were back ordered so far that I was told to pick something else if I expected to have it within the year. The demand is very high because the technology is good. It’s not a campaign or conspiracy.

bmicraft 4y ago
Yeah it almost makes the opposite of sense. If manufacturers are already backordered a year in advance why would they still throw money at marketing
- bluGill 4y ago
  The war in Ukraine has resulted in a real push to get off of oil/gas based heating, on top of global warming concerns that have already been doing that. There are lots of different groups looking to push heat pumps for the above reasons. Governments are concerned about both war and global warming. Ukraine supporters are concerned about Russia getting more money (to wage more war). Green activists are concerned about global warming. All have their own reasons to push heat pumps on everyone.

mytailorisrich 4y ago

It's not directly related to the recent spike in prices, especially considering that a heat pump installation is very expensive in itself and potentially disruptive. Rather, it's a combination wanting to get to net zero, so no emissions, with the big problem of generating enough green electricity. A heat pump system has no emissions and consumes much less electricity than an electric boiler/electric heater.

Thlom 4y ago
I replaced my old air-to-air heat pump with a new one last year. Cost me in total around $3000-$4000. Might have been a bit more expensive if it was a completely new install depending on how it would be installed, but not too much more expensive. Might be more expensive in countries where you are using gas boilers as it sounds like your heating setup is much more complex than where I live.
- mytailorisrich 4y ago
  Here in the UK, I think the cost of installing a new heat pump, bearing in mind that it's an installation from scratch, starts at about £10k ($12k as today's rate) to several tens of thousands. A ground source heat pump (which seem to be the ones pushed by the gov?) is probably £15k to £30k if you can install one at all. Replacing an existing gas boiler, which is what most people have, is probably around £2k or even less in simple cases. I had mine replaced 2 years ago with the new one installed on a different floor so a fair amount of plumbing was required, and it 'only' cost me £3k. There are government subsidies but it's still much more expensive in the end. I think they are simply too expensive and impractical to install for most people.
  - notacoward 4y ago
    FWIW, I just installed two heat pumps in a 3100sf house in the US northeast this summer. We already had ducted AC. The main unit was US$17K and the mini-split for the master bedroom was US$6K. There a US$10K state rebate, but we'll probably only get 70% of that because we've retained the old heating system as a backup and for water, so total cost is US$16K. These are cold-climate units, both rated down to -4°F but I haven't actually made them work below 20°F yet. Next year I'll probably set the aux cutover temperature to something lower and see how it goes. Year after that we'll probably install solar (plus wind if the technology for that has moved along far enough) and switch to all-electric everything. BTW my town has an all-electric mandate for new construction already, and there's a lot of that. There's also a bylaw that takes effect in 2025/2026 banning gas-powered landscaping equipment.

oceanplexian 4y ago

An overlooked benefit is that they actually improve comfort over a boiler in a dry climate, so if you live somewhere with low humidity they help keep the air less dry. They also give you heating and cooling.. for places that don’t have Air Conditioning it’s a worthwhile upgrade.

megaman821 4y ago
I assume in home that don't have ACs, that they also don't have ducts. Do these ductless homes filter their air, control home humidity, or bring in fresh air from outside?
- wongarsu 4y ago
  "Ductless homes" usually circulate hot water through radiators. If you switch to a heat pump, nothing's stopping you from circulating cold water in the summer, though obviously there is a limit on the temperature delta (you can heat water much more than you can cool it). Bringing in fresh air is a manual process (open the windows), and filtering air or controling humidity is then left to seperate appliances, if done at all. Though small fans to the outside for forced ventilation are gaining some popularity for giving you automatic air exchange and filtration.
  - benplumley 4y ago
    > nothing's stopping you from circulating cold water in the summer Condensation is - air conditioners have an integrated drip tray which drains to the outside, but if you ran chilled water through radiators they'd all make puddles of condensation on the floor. Retrofitting drains might be possible but I've never seen one and I can't imagine it'd be cost-effective vs installing mini-splits.
  - sbradford26 4y ago
    There are many reasons why you can't just circulate cold water though a radiator to cool. As another commenter stated you will get large amounts of condensation. But the other reason is that you do not get nearly as effective of convection currents with cool versus heating. Your radiators utilize convection currents to circulate the warm air around the room. Running chilled water though the a radiator would be like having an ice cube in the corner of the room. It isn't going to cool the whole room down and will get water everywhere.

quickthrowman 4y ago

NG (in the US) is now about 70-80% cheaper than it was at the recent highs.

brewdad 4y ago
And my local utilities just got approved for massive rate increases locking in those higher prices. Of course, I probably wasn't paying the full costs this past year.