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Do you expect that human brain adaptation occurs differently for some reason in environments where "individuals who share an ideology" happen to not be sharing

Do you expect that human brain adaptation occurs differently for some reason in environments where "individuals who share an ideology" happen to not be sharing "American" ideologies?

anotheraccount9 4y ago
I think he meant to test this outside a 0-1 choice of ideology.
- snowpid 4y ago
  yes, multi-party systems dont have an usual 0-1 binary thinking.
snowpid 4y ago
it might be a case for societies where is a stronger group identification (e.g. identification for the nation) And again, American political system is rather unique in the Western world. At least it should discussed in the discussion chapter.
- luckylion 4y ago
  > it might be a case for societies where is a stronger group identification (e.g. identification for the nation) Did you mean nation as in ethnicity? Because otherwise I think the US's identification with the nation is pretty strong across both camps. > And again, American political system is rather unique in the Western world. It is? Even with multiple small parties, you'll still largely get ideological camps. It's rare that you have parties that pick their ideas from all over the place.
  - snowpid 4y ago
    In some nations some political decisions are consensus (e.g. NHS in UK, Russia as an enemy in Ukraine) Nation can be seen as an consensus ideology and if you share some opinions you can get along better on other topics.
    - luckylion 4y ago
      Sure, and some political decisions have broad consensus in the US as well, e.g. Medicaid. But that really doesn't say much, because other topics are different and the NHS being broadly accepted doesn't help with collectivism vs individualism, pro/anti-EU etc.
      - snowpid 4y ago
        to refer back to my original point: Other nations have a more common ground so the study result might not apply to other countries. I think I showed enough reasonable arguments for that potencial case.
    - TeMPOraL 4y ago
      > Nation can be seen as an consensus ideology and if you share some opinions you can get along better on other topics. In some sense, it's the job of public education, particularly through the curricula of history and $local-official-language, to establish that consensus ideology - to create unity by exposing everyone to the same large landscape of stories, opinions and beliefs, so that any two people of a nation can quickly establish some common ground between themselves and get along.
      - luckylion 4y ago
        > to create unity by exposing everyone to the same large landscape of stories, opinions and beliefs Or, in other words: to the same reality (it doesn't matter whether it's factually accurate, only that it's widely shared). Is there a way back to more shared reality without one side wiping out the other? A common threat that just makes the differences in perception meaningless next to the shared perception of that threat? Aliens invading would probably help, at least temporarily. Maybe, if you keep that up for two generations, they'll have forgotten most of the ideological identities that had divided them, and will only rediscover them after some amount of lasting peace?
bluetomcat 4y ago
In non-media-hyped societies, voters of different parties can sit on the same table and talk about their lives without ever touching political issues. This kind of polarisation is a US phenomenon that is spreading worldwide like wildfire through mass-media outlets.
- luckylion 4y ago
  Yeah, I'm sure that would've gone over well in Germany in the 30ies, NSDAP members and KPD members discussing their lives without touching political issues.
  - snowpid 4y ago
    Weimar in the 30ies was heavely poralised.
    - luckylion 4y ago
      It was, but it wasn't "a US phenomenon that is spreading worldwide like wildfire through mass-media outlets". People don't need mass-media with a 24-hours news-cycle and social media bubbles to get polarized.
      - adamrezich 4y ago
        but the internet connections in our pockets certainly don't help things either
  - bluetomcat 4y ago
    Case in point from where I live: Bulgaria. Just 10 years ago I can remember a time when Facebook was used primarily for sharing family photos and journeys. Now it has become a toxic pit where grumpy and bitter aunties are reading fake news and writing insulting name-calling comments after anyone who expresses disagreement. Political figures are impulsively posting short write-ups, full of emotional hatred. Short memes and news-invented neologisms are circulating all over the societal discourse. Problems that were once non-existent in Bulgarian society, are now discussed with vehement enthusiasm and basic misunderstanding.
coldtea 4y ago
Yes. Because American "ideologies" also correlate strongly to city vs rural, skin color and ethnicity, and other factors, which is not necessarily the case in many/most countries whereas there might be more choices, and the kind of people believing in each more equally diatributed...
- dauertewigkeit 4y ago
  I live in Germany and I would say, that is very much the case here, in fact probably more so than in the US. And in any case, why would you expect this to not be the case? Should people in different living circumstances magically have the same beliefs, interests and desires?
  - coldtea 4y ago
    >Should people in different living circumstances magically have the same beliefs, interests and desires? Magically no, just practically. Which is often the case, because the ideologies concerned don't touch on rural vs urban "beliefs, interests and desires" but other divisions, like progressive vs conservative, environmental vs economic push, nationalist vs regionalist, and others. Sometimes the "beliefs, interests and desires" are even irrelevant, as dominant parties offer the same kind of programs, and it's just party loyalty that gets one to one or the other. Germany has 5 parties in parliament (with sizable representation), the US has had two for a good while (with insignificant independent inroads). German party ideology is much more segreggated and divided among states than in Germany. Germany is much more homogeneous by population. And many other factors besides.
- qikInNdOutReply 4y ago
  You obviously did not get around much, and never ventured out of your peer group abroad. If anything, humans are remarkably similar, and that similarity transfers even to the ugly of racism, sexism etc. Just because some country has no empire to project the ugly, doesent mean its not there.
  - coldtea 4y ago
kar5pt 4y ago
It seems reasonable that the kind of ideology might affect how it correlates with brain activity, wouldn't it?

Do you expect that human brain adaptation occurs differently for some reason in environments where "individuals who share an ideology" happen to not be sharing "American" ideologies?

anotheraccount9 4y ago

I think he meant to test this outside a 0-1 choice of ideology.

snowpid 4y ago
yes, multi-party systems dont have an usual 0-1 binary thinking.

snowpid 4y ago

it might be a case for societies where is a stronger group identification (e.g. identification for the nation) And again, American political system is rather unique in the Western world. At least it should discussed in the discussion chapter.

luckylion 4y ago
> it might be a case for societies where is a stronger group identification (e.g. identification for the nation) Did you mean nation as in ethnicity? Because otherwise I think the US's identification with the nation is pretty strong across both camps. > And again, American political system is rather unique in the Western world. It is? Even with multiple small parties, you'll still largely get ideological camps. It's rare that you have parties that pick their ideas from all over the place.
- snowpid 4y ago
  In some nations some political decisions are consensus (e.g. NHS in UK, Russia as an enemy in Ukraine) Nation can be seen as an consensus ideology and if you share some opinions you can get along better on other topics.
  - luckylion 4y ago
    Sure, and some political decisions have broad consensus in the US as well, e.g. Medicaid. But that really doesn't say much, because other topics are different and the NHS being broadly accepted doesn't help with collectivism vs individualism, pro/anti-EU etc.
    - snowpid 4y ago
      to refer back to my original point: Other nations have a more common ground so the study result might not apply to other countries. I think I showed enough reasonable arguments for that potencial case.
  - TeMPOraL 4y ago
    > Nation can be seen as an consensus ideology and if you share some opinions you can get along better on other topics. In some sense, it's the job of public education, particularly through the curricula of history and $local-official-language, to establish that consensus ideology - to create unity by exposing everyone to the same large landscape of stories, opinions and beliefs, so that any two people of a nation can quickly establish some common ground between themselves and get along.
    - luckylion 4y ago
      > to create unity by exposing everyone to the same large landscape of stories, opinions and beliefs Or, in other words: to the same reality (it doesn't matter whether it's factually accurate, only that it's widely shared). Is there a way back to more shared reality without one side wiping out the other? A common threat that just makes the differences in perception meaningless next to the shared perception of that threat? Aliens invading would probably help, at least temporarily. Maybe, if you keep that up for two generations, they'll have forgotten most of the ideological identities that had divided them, and will only rediscover them after some amount of lasting peace?

bluetomcat 4y ago

In non-media-hyped societies, voters of different parties can sit on the same table and talk about their lives without ever touching political issues. This kind of polarisation is a US phenomenon that is spreading worldwide like wildfire through mass-media outlets.

luckylion 4y ago
Yeah, I'm sure that would've gone over well in Germany in the 30ies, NSDAP members and KPD members discussing their lives without touching political issues.
- snowpid 4y ago
  Weimar in the 30ies was heavely poralised.
  - luckylion 4y ago
    It was, but it wasn't "a US phenomenon that is spreading worldwide like wildfire through mass-media outlets". People don't need mass-media with a 24-hours news-cycle and social media bubbles to get polarized.
    - adamrezich 4y ago
      but the internet connections in our pockets certainly don't help things either
- bluetomcat 4y ago
  Case in point from where I live: Bulgaria. Just 10 years ago I can remember a time when Facebook was used primarily for sharing family photos and journeys. Now it has become a toxic pit where grumpy and bitter aunties are reading fake news and writing insulting name-calling comments after anyone who expresses disagreement. Political figures are impulsively posting short write-ups, full of emotional hatred. Short memes and news-invented neologisms are circulating all over the societal discourse. Problems that were once non-existent in Bulgarian society, are now discussed with vehement enthusiasm and basic misunderstanding.

coldtea 4y ago

Yes. Because American "ideologies" also correlate strongly to city vs rural, skin color and ethnicity, and other factors, which is not necessarily the case in many/most countries whereas there might be more choices, and the kind of people believing in each more equally diatributed...

dauertewigkeit 4y ago
I live in Germany and I would say, that is very much the case here, in fact probably more so than in the US. And in any case, why would you expect this to not be the case? Should people in different living circumstances magically have the same beliefs, interests and desires?
- coldtea 4y ago
  >Should people in different living circumstances magically have the same beliefs, interests and desires? Magically no, just practically. Which is often the case, because the ideologies concerned don't touch on rural vs urban "beliefs, interests and desires" but other divisions, like progressive vs conservative, environmental vs economic push, nationalist vs regionalist, and others. Sometimes the "beliefs, interests and desires" are even irrelevant, as dominant parties offer the same kind of programs, and it's just party loyalty that gets one to one or the other. Germany has 5 parties in parliament (with sizable representation), the US has had two for a good while (with insignificant independent inroads). German party ideology is much more segreggated and divided among states than in Germany. Germany is much more homogeneous by population. And many other factors besides.
qikInNdOutReply 4y ago
You obviously did not get around much, and never ventured out of your peer group abroad. If anything, humans are remarkably similar, and that similarity transfers even to the ugly of racism, sexism etc. Just because some country has no empire to project the ugly, doesent mean its not there.
- coldtea 4y ago

kar5pt 4y ago

It seems reasonable that the kind of ideology might affect how it correlates with brain activity, wouldn't it?