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My next Linux laptop is going to be a Framework! Seems like a much better bet nowadays than a thinkpad.
by fooker 4y ago
My next Linux laptop is going to be a Framework!
Seems like a much better bet nowadays than a thinkpad.
- bodge5000 4y agoI'm really tempted, but thinkpads are still just about edging ahead for me (1) Entirely subjective, but I think they look better (2) I like the trackpoint and (3) AMD is an option. I dont have any problem with intel cpu's, but amd provides far better igpu's, certainly enough to play a lot of games at lower settings.
- snvzz 4y agoOnce they offer AMD options. Until then, there's no way.
- worldofmatthew 4y agoAMD CPUs are much better for laptop as they tend to scale better at acceptable power draw levels for something battery powered while retaining good performance. Intel has the lead on the low power/low performance stuff.
- sph 4y agoSame, but I don't care much about Team Blue vs Red. The Intel-driven power saving fiasco of the latest generation of Framework laptops is enough to keep me away. I should not have to add weird kernel parameters or modules for my laptop not to burn through its battery during sleep.
- PrimeDirective 4y agoI'm out of the loop, what was the fiasco?
- rwalle 4y agoThese may help: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Core-i5-beats-Core-i7-Alder-Lake-P-creates-problems-for-manufacturers-and-customers.621251.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/Core-i5-beats-Core-i7-Alder-La... https://wccftech.com/intel-alder-lake-desktop-cpus-more-power-hungry-than-rocket-lake-comet-lake-chips/ https://wccftech.com/intel-alder-lake-desktop-cpus-more-powe... Basically the P CPUs are much faster than U in previous generations but are also much more power hungry. The battery life is noticably shorter on laptops with a CPU like i5-1240P. And they produce a LOT of heat. I think one CPU option for framework laptop is i5-1240P.
- razemio 4y agoI see so many people thinking AMD is a better option. I see only downsides besides better price point. Why do you prefer it over Intel?
- tobz1000 4y ago1. Efficiency, and 2. Integrated graphics power. Conversely, what is the advantage of Intel, other than peak boost performance (at vastly higher wattage)?
- robotnikman 4y agoQuoting another person here, seems like there are some big issues with Intel CPU's when it comes to laptops "These may help: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Core-i5-beats-Core-i7-Alder-La https://www.notebookcheck.net/Core-i5-beats-Core-i7-Alder-La... https://wccftech.com/intel-alder-lake-desktop-cpus-more-powe https://wccftech.com/intel-alder-lake-desktop-cpus-more-powe... Basically the P CPUs are much faster than U in previous generations but are also much more power hungry. The battery life is noticably shorter on laptops with a CPU like i5-1240P. And they produce a LOT of heat. I think one CPU option for framework laptop is i5-1240P. "
- unmole 4y agoWhat downsides do you see?
- razemio 4y agoI am a dev with the need to virtualize ALOT. My main driver is also a Linux based system. I had to use a ThinkPad T14 2021 (maxed out AMD version) before I switch employees. It was a horrible experience: * virtualization issues left and right. Everything was working but weird behavior from time to time. Like random performance degradation, rare crashes and mostly compatibility issues with experimental stuff (e.g. Integrated gpu pass through was not possible with AMDs at the time) * battery life sucked (ironically this should be an Intel Issue) * standby was not working as expected * no support for Display Link * Thunderbolt 4 (huge issue for me) Now I am on the Framework i7 11 Gen and all the issues are gone. Yes Battery life could be better but it was way worse with the AMD.
- reedf1 4y agoHow does the keyboard compare? Out of genuine interest because I'm likely to do the same.
- tomrod 4y agoSomewhat small. Gen 11 appears to have had some quality issues (general freezing) and Gen 12 was able tk resolve over time. Frameworks run a tad hot on Linux as well
- bobmaxup 4y agoThey run hot in general, from what I have read. I am typing on one running linux right now. ~45c with minimal load.
- drdebug 4y agoIt looks like the framework laptop keyboard is missing PgUp and PgDn keys (I use them constantly).
- imhoguy 4y agoI crossed so many good laptops from my buy list because of some silly keyboard decisions (oh, Asus), and MacBook fellas shrug on my complaints :)
- porbelm 4y agoDoes it not do Fn+ArrowUp/Down like any other laptop without dedicated PgUp/Down keys?
- Lt_Riza_Hawkeye 4y agoIt does
- peepee1982 4y agoSlightly off topic. But when I got my first 60% keyboard I started using the SpaceFN layout (via TouchCursor on Windows) and never looked back. Even on larger keyboards. SpaceFN turns your space bar into a meta key, and arrows/home/end/pgup/pgdown are all reachable from the home row. I can't go back. You can't use it in application that need to know if your holding down the spacebar (graphic design software, games). I switch it off for those. But otherwise I haven't had any issues (besides TouchCursor, which is buggy and need a restart every now and then).
- SLWW 4y agoIf you want a good thinkpad that you can just beat up (you know, a rescue) then they still have a very apropo use case.
- noisy_boy 4y agoThe killer feature would be if framework design their motherboards so that they also happen to fit in the older rock-solid Thinkpads - that'll pretty much bring them all back to being modern machines with full power and unbeatable build quality.
- ChuckNorris89 4y agoI dunno man, the glossy screens on the Framework are a no go for me. Also no AMD as well. ThinkPads are expensive but at least I can get them with Ryzens and matt displays.
- tssva 4y agoI currently have an AMD Thinkpad and would not get another to run Linux. For most of the life of the laptop battery life has been horrible. In the last year it has been better but still nowhere near as good as it is with Windows. AMD and Lenovo are both aware it is an issue, it is not restricted to this Thinkpad, but neither care enough to devote resources to tracking down and resolving the cause. I'm guessing because the Linux laptop market isn't large enough for them to devote the resources to.
- bernawil 4y agoInteresting, it's the other way around for me with screens. Glossy screens have better colors and text looks crispier to me, something about the lack of diffusion around character's borders. I honestly don't know how matte screens are still a thing: you can always turn a smooth surface into matte with a screen protector, but not the opposite.
- asddubs 4y agofor me the deal breaker is physical mouse buttons, including middle mouse click. Thinkpads have them to support their nipple mouse (which i don't care about), but I don't want a laptop without the buttons (i like the physical left click for drag and drop, and middle click for internet browsing). Lots of laptops that have come out in recent years are pretty tempting, but most of them don't have the mouse buttons
- coolspot 4y agoYou should not use a laptop trackpad for any significant amount of time anyway, if you care about RSI and Carpal Tunnel Syndrome.
- 4y ago
- VanTodi 4y agoI used ThinkPads before too and swapped to tuxedo books now. They make laptops specifically for Linux and even provide software updates etc. For Linux. I'm quite happy, but it's more expensive.
- schlowmo 4y agoI've done this too, mainly because of the limited RAM upgrade options in the ThinkPad T series (only one free slot and one soldered). But one must be aware that tuxedo doesn't "make" laptops in the narrower sense. They're a Schenker reseller and while I'm overall satisfied with my tuxedo the build quality isn't close to ThinkPads T or X series.
- flangola7 4y ago[flagged]
- pimterry 4y agoI replaced my previous Thinkpad X1 carbon with a Framework 12th gen recently - vast improvement, runs Linux better than any other laptop I've ever used, I love using it, and I _love_ how repairable & upgradeable it is. Highly recommended.
- N3cr0ph4g1st 4y agoHow's the battery life
- kzrdude 4y agoIs this the one that has efficiency cores etc, how is that working?
- Arch-TK 4y agoNo trackpoint, oversized trackpad, I think I'll stick with my modified X230 for the time being. An AMD option also wouldn't hurt but its not as big of a priority for me as a trackpoint.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- OJFord 4y agoI have a personal Framework (cheapest DIY at launch - i5-1135G7) and a ThinkPad T15 (i5-1165G7) from work; that would be recommendation too. (I'm not claiming the slower CPU Framework is somehow faster than T15 - I just mean to say I'm not biased by the Framework having better hardware, being better on paper.) Build quality alone is superior IMO, even if it wasn't for the glorious repairability & upgradeability. (Which is glorious, they really paid attention to that, it's not just 'RAM is not soldered down', it's attention to detail like magnetic positioning, captive screws, etc.)