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> That’s how the big players killed hardware startups in Europe. That’s why every 20€ BOM gadget has a retail price of 99€. I dunno, "2 year warranty kills our

by rtpg 4y ago

> That’s how the big players killed hardware startups in Europe. That’s why every 20€ BOM gadget has a retail price of 99€. I dunno, "2 year warranty kills our business model" sounds a lot like "we are selling gadgets to go directly to a landfill". I imagine the bigger thing is on a macro level there's just less free money floating around in Europe to fund things with terrible unit economics. 2 years is of course a very long time, but you combine that with how many people would actually take advantage of that and... well, the defect rate, and I feel like you can make that work. EDIT: And to be even more glib, if your thing costs 20 euros to make, make 1 for the "warranty stockpile" for every 1 that goes out to customers. Warranty claim? Send out from the warranty stockpile.

ajsnigrutin 4y ago
> 2 years is of course a very long time How is 2 years a very long time for an electronic device? Most larger electronics (washing machines, dishwashers, fridges,...) have a 5 year warranty by default here, also many cars do.
zwily 4y ago
First you criticize that units will fill landfills, then you suggest they make 2 units for every 1 purchased?
- mschuster91 4y ago
  Alternatively, you can design your units to be easily repairable so you can stockpile spare parts, and do proper testing to reduce the amount of products that fail in the first place. The problem is that virtually anonymous sellers and dropshippers on Alibaba and Amazon can and will undercut the pricing that is required to support that kind of infrastructure and development - and I'm not sure what the correct way is to prevent that, while still allowing start-ups and small shops to sell stuff in the EU. Maybe an idea would be to make exemptions for small scale runs - think of something like a combination of: - below 1000 units sold in total for a company over all its lineup - at least the development work of the product must be domestic in origin (i.e. the company must be domiciled in the EU and at least 50% of the development work must be done by that company - that leaves startups free to hire overseas talent, but prohibits dropshipping China crap or production of pre-existing designs) - handling warranty claims must be done in the EU, with a requirement of "repair first" to incentivize feedback into product development.
- rtpg 4y ago
  I was being glib, offering it as a way out of the supposedly unsolvable problem. The real thing is to calibrate based on return rates etc, and of course if your devices can _just be fixed_ that’s great.

by rtpg 4y ago

ajsnigrutin 4y ago

> 2 years is of course a very long time How is 2 years a very long time for an electronic device? Most larger electronics (washing machines, dishwashers, fridges,...) have a 5 year warranty by default here, also many cars do.

zwily 4y ago

First you criticize that units will fill landfills, then you suggest they make 2 units for every 1 purchased?

mschuster91 4y ago
Alternatively, you can design your units to be easily repairable so you can stockpile spare parts, and do proper testing to reduce the amount of products that fail in the first place. The problem is that virtually anonymous sellers and dropshippers on Alibaba and Amazon can and will undercut the pricing that is required to support that kind of infrastructure and development - and I'm not sure what the correct way is to prevent that, while still allowing start-ups and small shops to sell stuff in the EU. Maybe an idea would be to make exemptions for small scale runs - think of something like a combination of: - below 1000 units sold in total for a company over all its lineup - at least the development work of the product must be domestic in origin (i.e. the company must be domiciled in the EU and at least 50% of the development work must be done by that company - that leaves startups free to hire overseas talent, but prohibits dropshipping China crap or production of pre-existing designs) - handling warranty claims must be done in the EU, with a requirement of "repair first" to incentivize feedback into product development.
rtpg 4y ago
I was being glib, offering it as a way out of the supposedly unsolvable problem. The real thing is to calibrate based on return rates etc, and of course if your devices can _just be fixed_ that’s great.