5 ms·

The way I had it explained to me is that “Type C” is the form factor, and that’s what is meant by universal. Which actual USB standard is implemented by the cli

The way I had it explained to me is that “Type C” is the form factor, and that’s what is meant by universal. Which actual USB standard is implemented by the client/host varies widely. This leads to an immense amount of confusion because people are used to different form factors indicating compatibility.

cesarb 4y ago
> The way I had it explained to me is that “Type C” is the form factor, and that’s what is meant by universal. Which actual USB standard is implemented by the client/host varies widely. There's also a couple of universal USB standards: every client/host is supposed to implement USB 2.0, unless they're charging-only; and every client/host is supposed to implement simple power delivery (negotiated through resistor values) at 5V and at least 500mA (for a USB-A 2.0 to USB-C cable, other combinations are supposed to deliver more current).
dotancohen 4y ago
And the corollary is: What is the advantage of a universal form factor if the wire protocols are different? If the wire protocols are different, then an identical form factor is a hindrance, not an advantage.
- Miraste 4y ago
  I'd much rather have it this way than how it was before. Sure, there are headaches, but not more than in the thirty-adapter-bag before times, and now if you get a nice cable that supports thunderbolt/usb3.14159/etc. it really can do everything.
  - Tarragon 4y ago
    I find the USB-C headaches worse. With a bag of cables if the cable fits[1] it works to the full capability of the device. If I'm traveling and forgot something I can expect that the cheapest gas station cable or a borrowed cable will work. With USB-C I have to spend good money for every every cable in order to ensure that any cable I grab from my bag works. And these cables are going to be so thick that they are annoying to use with a mouse or keyboard. I can rearrange my office and use a cheap 5 meter usb-A to B cable to get to where the printer is now (true story). If I want a 5 meter usb-C to C cable for data I need to spend over $300. [1] excluding all the possibilities of chargers with incompatible DC barrel plugs, which is generally true of the time frames we're talking about
    - Miraste 4y ago
      If you use a lot of wired devices I guess I can see that being a headache. I use wireless peripherals and make sure they're all usb-c, so when I travel I only need to remember one cable, maybe another as backup. These problems also improve as USB-C becomes more mass-manufactured. Case in point: now there's a 5 meter USB-IF certified usb-c power/ data cable at the top of the Amazon results for $19.
  - saiya-jin 4y ago
    Of course. Simple solution to all people yelling and complaining their 2$ amazon usb cable is not top notch compared to 50$ apple one is - don't buy cheap crap. There are good usb cables that handle it all, still cost fraction of apple ones due to simple effect of competition, and are more durable. But quality comes at a cost, just you don't need to pay apple profit margins.
kortilla 4y ago
It’s worse than that though because what’s implemented by the host and client can be the same but the cable can be incompatible too. usb-c is basically a standardized oval.

cesarb 4y ago

> The way I had it explained to me is that “Type C” is the form factor, and that’s what is meant by universal. Which actual USB standard is implemented by the client/host varies widely. There's also a couple of universal USB standards: every client/host is supposed to implement USB 2.0, unless they're charging-only; and every client/host is supposed to implement simple power delivery (negotiated through resistor values) at 5V and at least 500mA (for a USB-A 2.0 to USB-C cable, other combinations are supposed to deliver more current).

dotancohen 4y ago

And the corollary is: What is the advantage of a universal form factor if the wire protocols are different? If the wire protocols are different, then an identical form factor is a hindrance, not an advantage.

Miraste 4y ago
I'd much rather have it this way than how it was before. Sure, there are headaches, but not more than in the thirty-adapter-bag before times, and now if you get a nice cable that supports thunderbolt/usb3.14159/etc. it really can do everything.
- Tarragon 4y ago
  I find the USB-C headaches worse. With a bag of cables if the cable fits[1] it works to the full capability of the device. If I'm traveling and forgot something I can expect that the cheapest gas station cable or a borrowed cable will work. With USB-C I have to spend good money for every every cable in order to ensure that any cable I grab from my bag works. And these cables are going to be so thick that they are annoying to use with a mouse or keyboard. I can rearrange my office and use a cheap 5 meter usb-A to B cable to get to where the printer is now (true story). If I want a 5 meter usb-C to C cable for data I need to spend over $300. [1] excluding all the possibilities of chargers with incompatible DC barrel plugs, which is generally true of the time frames we're talking about
  - Miraste 4y ago
    If you use a lot of wired devices I guess I can see that being a headache. I use wireless peripherals and make sure they're all usb-c, so when I travel I only need to remember one cable, maybe another as backup. These problems also improve as USB-C becomes more mass-manufactured. Case in point: now there's a 5 meter USB-IF certified usb-c power/ data cable at the top of the Amazon results for $19.
- saiya-jin 4y ago
  Of course. Simple solution to all people yelling and complaining their 2$ amazon usb cable is not top notch compared to 50$ apple one is - don't buy cheap crap. There are good usb cables that handle it all, still cost fraction of apple ones due to simple effect of competition, and are more durable. But quality comes at a cost, just you don't need to pay apple profit margins.

kortilla 4y ago

It’s worse than that though because what’s implemented by the host and client can be the same but the cable can be incompatible too. usb-c is basically a standardized oval.