7 ms·

'San Francisco downtown as we know it is not coming back,' mayor proclaims

58 points by bryan0 4y ago

dietr1ch 4y ago
Skip the tax breaks, just ensure it's fun to go to downtown. Tax breaks are trickle down benefits to businesses that don't necessarily get to consumers and not at all to the workers of such businesses. * Reasonably priced food and beverages. They are critical if you want people to hang out for longer. - Instead of adjusting taxes, make change to the vending permits to bring goods+rent prices down. Decent minimum wage (to cut the tipping craziness) and pricing limits. * Add more parks and place for culture. - You can start with the parking lot looking something at Howard and Main. It's depressing passing by and thinking that someone thought that thing was great. - The transit center is just sad. The first floor is deserted while it could easily have at least a coffee place and art. * Convert a couple of streets into a park. - If you are saying there's no people going there, why do we need that many streets? - It'd be neat to have streets like 3rd or Harrison turned into a park. Maybe other streets if that allows better future expansion of the parks. - Bike routes would be better if they went through a park. Safer, fewer stops at traffic lights. - Other cities have done this already, - https://architectureau.com/articles/converting-roads-to-parks
logicalmonster 4y ago
> “In 1907, downtown was mostly rubble and ash. That’s considerably worse than today’s shift in how people are working,” she said. I'd take rubble and ash over piles of human feces.
- remarkEon 4y ago
  What a low bar to set, my goodness. Attempting to be constructive and give plenty of benefit of the doubt, maybe the point is that SF has always gotten worse before it’s gotten better?
hd95489 4y ago
Rubble and ash is opportunity… Drug addict ruled wasteland is liability
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
rayiner 4y ago
I really do enjoy Mayor’s Breed’s brand of “tell it like it is.”
- rightbyte 4y ago
  According to Wiki she has been in office for five years. Has she done useful things? When I lived in SF area in 2015 I noted no problems what so ever concerning drug addicts or feces on the sidewalks.
  - logicalmonster 4y ago
    > Has she done useful things? At least she's an enthusiastic dancer. https://twitter.com/MichaelPSenger/status/1438976526976831492 https://twitter.com/MichaelPSenger/status/143897652697683149...
  - m0llusk 4y ago
    There are many issues one could review. The particular action that I appreciate was confronting the education commission with their own idiocy and getting new representatives appointed who actually know and care about education instead of politically correct school names.
remarkEon 4y ago
> In response to the city’s struggling downtown, Breed said she plans to introduce legislation that would modify the city’s tax structure to make San Francisco businesses more competitive. The plan would include pauses in tax increases for existing businesses,and three-year tax breaks for companies looking to open in the area. Gonna go out on a limb here and speculate that taxes are not the problem.
- m0llusk 4y ago
  There are multiple factors. During the boom years San Francisco cranked up tax burdens and muddied the waters with lots of special cases. Clearing up that mess will almost certainly help. It won't address the problem directly, but it will remove a complication and assist with any other changes that are made.
- jmeister 4y ago
  They can be a solution though. Low taxes can incentivize business to overlook the other problems that may take longer to solve.
  - galleywest200 4y ago
    Which would lead to a decrease in income that the city could use to address these longer term problems.
    - tonfreed 4y ago
      You're not going to get taxes anyway if there are no taxpayers in the city. You could raise taxes to 100% and I guarantee your tax revenue would completely collapse too
    - sokoloff 4y ago
      That depends on what the alternative is. If it’s that all the current businesses say “Whelp; we can’t do anything. Let’s just stay here…” and all the same other businesses say “Considering everything, San Francisco is the best place to open up; let’s do it!”, then yes this plan would yield lower city tax revenues. If another scenario is true that some businesses would be retained and others attracted who would otherwise end up somewhere else, city revenues could even be increased over time by this plan as compared to the baseline.
BenFranklin100 4y ago
Such a shame. A combination of NIMBYism, progressive policing, and underinvestment in efficient mass transit has put SF on the edge of destruction instead of along the path of becoming the most economically vibrant, culturally diverse, and tech forward city in the world.
- drewbeck 4y ago
  Agree on your last point o some degree (transit) but many cities’ downtowns are struggling post (“post”) pandemic. It’s a bit of a laff to lay this at the feet of progressive policing and NIMBYism, which seem like issues you have at the ready to apply to whatever negative situation.
  - BenFranklin100 4y ago
    NIMBYism is responsible for the restrictions on building new homes, which contributes to a low supply of housing relative to demand and thus high home prices. SF policing has been widely criticized for the public homelessness and drug abuse. You seem to be the one who paints with a broad brush rather than acknowledging fair points.
    - jfengel 4y ago
      "Nobody lives there any more, because there's too much demand for housing."
- akomtu 4y ago
  Crime-friendly policing? Why use the innocuous word "progressive" to hide the truth?
  - bluescrn 4y ago
    Progress towards a world where we all live in the metaverse and never leave the safety of our WFH pods?
enahs-sf 4y ago
To the $17 sandwiches and salads, I say good riddance.
anonreeeeplor 4y ago
The only solution I can think of is an almost complete restructuring of government to give neighborhood communities way more power. The entire power structure from California to city on down has to be almost completely changed. It’s like we have a Midieval government transported into a modern city. The disconnect is so obvious that it can’t be fixed, only total government restructuring will do it. Governments from 30 years ago transported into modern cities don’t work: that’s basically what we have here. That doesn’t seem to be imminent so I don’t see it coming back.
dopeboy 4y ago
I go into downtown (specifically soma) about once a week. It is just an absolute ghost town now. The biggest change is in the energy - there was a real mood to friday after work in that area with bars and restaurants filling up. I don't know what to make of it.
TapWaterBandit 4y ago
> Breed recounted how even though the city has struggled to return to its pre-pandemic state, downtown San Francisco was in far worse shape after the 1906 earthquake. > “In 1907, downtown was mostly rubble and ash. That’s considerably worse than today’s shift in how people are working,” she said. Lol you know things are bad when the Mayor is saying at least it isn't as bad as the aftermath of the worst natural disaster in California's history.
- refurb 4y ago
  Who is her PR person? Thats a hilariously bad statement to make. And i guess its not surprising. Having lived there and paid attention to the politicians, it reminds me of what would happen if you put a bunch of high school students in charge. Good intentions but horrible ideas that bear no resemblance to reality.
bsaul 4y ago
Wonder how long it'll take until SF switches side to either republicans or independent. Maybe once even the super rich leave, and all is left to vote is the crackheads.
- zokula 4y ago
  [dead]
- BaculumMeumEst 4y ago
  i don't think the crackheads are going to vote republican
- refurb 4y ago
  It happened in NYC. Given a bad enough QOL and even the biggest leftist will go all “law and order”.
panick21_ 4y ago
Not with that attitude.

58 points by bryan0 4y ago

Skip the tax breaks, just ensure it's fun to go to downtown. Tax breaks are trickle down benefits to businesses that don't necessarily get to consumers and not at all to the workers of such businesses. * Reasonably priced food and beverages. They are critical if you want people to hang out for longer. - Instead of adjusting taxes, make change to the vending permits to bring goods+rent prices down. Decent minimum wage (to cut the tipping craziness) and pricing limits. * Add more parks and place for culture. - You can start with the parking lot looking something at Howard and Main. It's depressing passing by and thinking that someone thought that thing was great. - The transit center is just sad. The first floor is deserted while it could easily have at least a coffee place and art. * Convert a couple of streets into a park. - If you are saying there's no people going there, why do we need that many streets? - It'd be neat to have streets like 3rd or Harrison turned into a park. Maybe other streets if that allows better future expansion of the parks. - Bike routes would be better if they went through a park. Safer, fewer stops at traffic lights. - Other cities have done this already, - https://architectureau.com/articles/converting-roads-to-parks

logicalmonster 4y ago

> “In 1907, downtown was mostly rubble and ash. That’s considerably worse than today’s shift in how people are working,” she said. I'd take rubble and ash over piles of human feces.

remarkEon 4y ago
What a low bar to set, my goodness. Attempting to be constructive and give plenty of benefit of the doubt, maybe the point is that SF has always gotten worse before it’s gotten better?

hd95489 4y ago

Rubble and ash is opportunity… Drug addict ruled wasteland is liability

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

rayiner 4y ago

I really do enjoy Mayor’s Breed’s brand of “tell it like it is.”

rightbyte 4y ago
According to Wiki she has been in office for five years. Has she done useful things? When I lived in SF area in 2015 I noted no problems what so ever concerning drug addicts or feces on the sidewalks.
- logicalmonster 4y ago
  > Has she done useful things? At least she's an enthusiastic dancer. https://twitter.com/MichaelPSenger/status/1438976526976831492 https://twitter.com/MichaelPSenger/status/143897652697683149...
- m0llusk 4y ago
  There are many issues one could review. The particular action that I appreciate was confronting the education commission with their own idiocy and getting new representatives appointed who actually know and care about education instead of politically correct school names.

remarkEon 4y ago

> In response to the city’s struggling downtown, Breed said she plans to introduce legislation that would modify the city’s tax structure to make San Francisco businesses more competitive. The plan would include pauses in tax increases for existing businesses,and three-year tax breaks for companies looking to open in the area. Gonna go out on a limb here and speculate that taxes are not the problem.

m0llusk 4y ago
There are multiple factors. During the boom years San Francisco cranked up tax burdens and muddied the waters with lots of special cases. Clearing up that mess will almost certainly help. It won't address the problem directly, but it will remove a complication and assist with any other changes that are made.
jmeister 4y ago
They can be a solution though. Low taxes can incentivize business to overlook the other problems that may take longer to solve.
- galleywest200 4y ago
  Which would lead to a decrease in income that the city could use to address these longer term problems.
  - tonfreed 4y ago
    You're not going to get taxes anyway if there are no taxpayers in the city. You could raise taxes to 100% and I guarantee your tax revenue would completely collapse too
  - sokoloff 4y ago
    That depends on what the alternative is. If it’s that all the current businesses say “Whelp; we can’t do anything. Let’s just stay here…” and all the same other businesses say “Considering everything, San Francisco is the best place to open up; let’s do it!”, then yes this plan would yield lower city tax revenues. If another scenario is true that some businesses would be retained and others attracted who would otherwise end up somewhere else, city revenues could even be increased over time by this plan as compared to the baseline.

BenFranklin100 4y ago

Such a shame. A combination of NIMBYism, progressive policing, and underinvestment in efficient mass transit has put SF on the edge of destruction instead of along the path of becoming the most economically vibrant, culturally diverse, and tech forward city in the world.

drewbeck 4y ago
Agree on your last point o some degree (transit) but many cities’ downtowns are struggling post (“post”) pandemic. It’s a bit of a laff to lay this at the feet of progressive policing and NIMBYism, which seem like issues you have at the ready to apply to whatever negative situation.
- BenFranklin100 4y ago
  NIMBYism is responsible for the restrictions on building new homes, which contributes to a low supply of housing relative to demand and thus high home prices. SF policing has been widely criticized for the public homelessness and drug abuse. You seem to be the one who paints with a broad brush rather than acknowledging fair points.
  - jfengel 4y ago
    "Nobody lives there any more, because there's too much demand for housing."
akomtu 4y ago
Crime-friendly policing? Why use the innocuous word "progressive" to hide the truth?
- bluescrn 4y ago
  Progress towards a world where we all live in the metaverse and never leave the safety of our WFH pods?

enahs-sf 4y ago

To the $17 sandwiches and salads, I say good riddance.

anonreeeeplor 4y ago

The only solution I can think of is an almost complete restructuring of government to give neighborhood communities way more power. The entire power structure from California to city on down has to be almost completely changed. It’s like we have a Midieval government transported into a modern city. The disconnect is so obvious that it can’t be fixed, only total government restructuring will do it. Governments from 30 years ago transported into modern cities don’t work: that’s basically what we have here. That doesn’t seem to be imminent so I don’t see it coming back.

dopeboy 4y ago

I go into downtown (specifically soma) about once a week. It is just an absolute ghost town now. The biggest change is in the energy - there was a real mood to friday after work in that area with bars and restaurants filling up. I don't know what to make of it.

TapWaterBandit 4y ago

> Breed recounted how even though the city has struggled to return to its pre-pandemic state, downtown San Francisco was in far worse shape after the 1906 earthquake. > “In 1907, downtown was mostly rubble and ash. That’s considerably worse than today’s shift in how people are working,” she said. Lol you know things are bad when the Mayor is saying at least it isn't as bad as the aftermath of the worst natural disaster in California's history.

refurb 4y ago
Who is her PR person? Thats a hilariously bad statement to make. And i guess its not surprising. Having lived there and paid attention to the politicians, it reminds me of what would happen if you put a bunch of high school students in charge. Good intentions but horrible ideas that bear no resemblance to reality.

bsaul 4y ago

Wonder how long it'll take until SF switches side to either republicans or independent. Maybe once even the super rich leave, and all is left to vote is the crackheads.

zokula 4y ago
[dead]
BaculumMeumEst 4y ago
i don't think the crackheads are going to vote republican
refurb 4y ago
It happened in NYC. Given a bad enough QOL and even the biggest leftist will go all “law and order”.

panick21_ 4y ago

Not with that attitude.