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Yeah and the s23 has double the memory so it’s going to absolutely kick the crap out of the iPhone12 after it starts to swap your tabs into memory even accounti

Yeah and the s23 has double the memory so it’s going to absolutely kick the crap out of the iPhone12 after it starts to swap your tabs into memory even accounting for the JVM. It’s cool and all for Apple to have an edge in single core performance but it doesn’t matter all that much in the real world and the s23 is objectively the faster phone.

acdha 4y ago
> the s23 has dramatically more memory so it’s going to absolutely kick the crap out of the iPhone12 after it starts to swap your tabs into memory. Do you have any reproducible test results showing that or are you just asserting tribal loyalty? I jest, we all know the answer. You might want to read up on how iOS and Android differ in key ways: native code versus JIT, garbage collection versus ARC, and all of the system level differences for how many things can run in the background as well as quickly apps can save and restore state - faster CPUs and SSDs allows iOS to be more aggressive there, too, and developers can tune more aggressively because they have fewer, more consistent configurations to support. Also consider it from the perspective of the engineering trade offs that the manufacturers make. More RAM means lower battery life and a higher price, and consumers are also sensitive to both of those. Apple controls their stack so tightly that they designed a custom SoC and market-leading CPU, and they measure the user experience very closely since that’s a lot of what they’re selling — if there really was a gap, adding more RAM would be one of the easiest ways to close it. Similarly, Samsung wouldn’t make every phone they make have lower battery life and cost more if that only benefited a small percentage of users. They’re making different choices because they have different systems but both of them watch this stuff closely.
- kaba0 4y ago
  While I agree with your overall points, you are wrong on the details: Android runs native code and ARC is just another form of GC (with less memory overhead, but also less throughput for what it matters. It is probably the better choice for mobile devices). Apple hardware is just that much better, it is not about the software stack.
  - acdha 4y ago
    Android does have native code support, but do non-games use it commonly? The Android reviews I've read tend to mention that being a game thing when talking about why it's important to have more RAM. (And, yes, I should have said “Java's GC vs. ARC” since that tends to have higher peaks)
    - kaba0 4y ago
      Android’s ART used to be a completely AOT approach (that compiled to native machine code on the machine at install time), nowadays there is also a JIT compiler that shares profiling information across devices even.
      - acdha 4y ago
        Yeah, to be clear my point is not that one is better than the other but simply that you can’t directly compare RAM without adjusting for the fact that they have different designs.
- pjmlp 4y ago
  Android since version 5 AOT compiles the code, since version 7 it JITs first and then AOT compiles on idle, nowadays not only it JIT/AOT compiles it does so by using PGO metadata shared across devices via the PlayStore. Reference counting is a GC algorithm.
  - acdha 4y ago
    > Android since version 5 AOT compiles the code, since version 7 it JITs first and then AOT compiles on idle, nowadays not only it JIT/AOT compiles it does so by using PGO metadata shared across devices via the PlayStore. Thanks, I knew that Android had native code support but I've always heard that described as something mostly used by games. > Reference counting is a GC algorithm. Yes, I should have been pedantic and written “Java's GC” since the point was that historically it's tended to trade RAM for performance. The classic complaint I've heard from our mobile developers was that Objective-C forced you to focus more on memory management.
kaba0 4y ago
Android doesn’t run “the JVM”.
deleted 4y ago
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acdha 4y ago

> the s23 has dramatically more memory so it’s going to absolutely kick the crap out of the iPhone12 after it starts to swap your tabs into memory. Do you have any reproducible test results showing that or are you just asserting tribal loyalty? I jest, we all know the answer. You might want to read up on how iOS and Android differ in key ways: native code versus JIT, garbage collection versus ARC, and all of the system level differences for how many things can run in the background as well as quickly apps can save and restore state - faster CPUs and SSDs allows iOS to be more aggressive there, too, and developers can tune more aggressively because they have fewer, more consistent configurations to support. Also consider it from the perspective of the engineering trade offs that the manufacturers make. More RAM means lower battery life and a higher price, and consumers are also sensitive to both of those. Apple controls their stack so tightly that they designed a custom SoC and market-leading CPU, and they measure the user experience very closely since that’s a lot of what they’re selling — if there really was a gap, adding more RAM would be one of the easiest ways to close it. Similarly, Samsung wouldn’t make every phone they make have lower battery life and cost more if that only benefited a small percentage of users. They’re making different choices because they have different systems but both of them watch this stuff closely.

kaba0 4y ago
While I agree with your overall points, you are wrong on the details: Android runs native code and ARC is just another form of GC (with less memory overhead, but also less throughput for what it matters. It is probably the better choice for mobile devices). Apple hardware is just that much better, it is not about the software stack.
- acdha 4y ago
  Android does have native code support, but do non-games use it commonly? The Android reviews I've read tend to mention that being a game thing when talking about why it's important to have more RAM. (And, yes, I should have said “Java's GC vs. ARC” since that tends to have higher peaks)
  - kaba0 4y ago
    Android’s ART used to be a completely AOT approach (that compiled to native machine code on the machine at install time), nowadays there is also a JIT compiler that shares profiling information across devices even.
    - acdha 4y ago
      Yeah, to be clear my point is not that one is better than the other but simply that you can’t directly compare RAM without adjusting for the fact that they have different designs.
pjmlp 4y ago
Android since version 5 AOT compiles the code, since version 7 it JITs first and then AOT compiles on idle, nowadays not only it JIT/AOT compiles it does so by using PGO metadata shared across devices via the PlayStore. Reference counting is a GC algorithm.
- acdha 4y ago
  > Android since version 5 AOT compiles the code, since version 7 it JITs first and then AOT compiles on idle, nowadays not only it JIT/AOT compiles it does so by using PGO metadata shared across devices via the PlayStore. Thanks, I knew that Android had native code support but I've always heard that described as something mostly used by games. > Reference counting is a GC algorithm. Yes, I should have been pedantic and written “Java's GC” since the point was that historically it's tended to trade RAM for performance. The classic complaint I've heard from our mobile developers was that Objective-C forced you to focus more on memory management.

kaba0 4y ago

Android doesn’t run “the JVM”.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]