6 ms·

It is a business but arguably it should be more focused on education and community enrichment than pure profits. Not everything in life needs to be focused on

by munk-a 4y ago

It is a business but arguably it should be more focused on education and community enrichment than pure profits. Not everything in life needs to be focused on profit.

BobbyJo 4y ago
It's far easier to optimize for profit then theoretical ideals. The issue here isn't that they are optimizing for profit, the issue is that incentives have put that pursuit at odds with the university's core mission (education/community), as opposed to keeping it aligned with it. Pursuit of profit should keep you accountable for the services you provide, not detract from them.
- komali2 4y ago
  So it's easier to optimize for profit, so what? How can your core mission be education but "you're optimizing for profit?" Either your core mission is education or it isn't. I feel like this is the kind of goal setting miss I see businesses make all the time. They'll be doing be doing some version of the ubiquitous value setting activity, and as ideas are pitched someone will be like "wait, isn't our most basic value to just make money?" Sure, whatever, but what does that tell us? A distraction. If money is really so important, just remember the story of the new CEO of iirc a failing iron production business that repeatedly answered the board's questions on how he'll turn profit with "we're going to be the safest iron production business in America." The goal was achieved by fostering a culture of transparency, adopting new technology like emails for internal flat hierarchy communication, etc, and it did become the safest, but also highly profitable. Persuit of profit alone justifies short term behavior constantly. The firing of 20% of your workforce could be seen as justifiable when your goal is persuit of profit. Basically I think it's wrong to try to go cross eyed having "persuit of profit" always there while also trying to set some other "idealistic" goal. Just stay focused!
  - WalterBright 4y ago
    The beauty of the free market is that the way to maximize profit is to maximize customer satisfaction.
    - riversflow 4y ago
      Invoking the free market in a discussion about a market as distorted as higher education is laughable. No, the way to maximize profits is to get government(s) to ensure that you are in a favorable position to earn profits. In this case, demanding that most well paying jobs necessitate tertiary education and providing free credit.
      - BobbyJo 4y ago
        Maybe the point is pointing out how distorted the market is, and maybe the distortion is the issue.
    - troops_h8r 4y ago
      Note that customer satisfaction != customer well being (i.e. heroin)
      - WalterBright 4y ago
        The heroin users believe it is in their best interests.
        troops_h8r 4y ago
        That's my point. It doesn't necessarily mean it is in their best interest - the free market doesn't optimize for people's best interests, it optimizes for people's perception of their best interest (which is usually fine but it's not always the same thing)
        WalterBright 4y ago
        Do you think it is better for the government to decide what's in your best interests?
  - BobbyJo 4y ago
    > Basically I think it's wrong to try to go cross eyed having "persuit of profit" always there while also trying to set some other "idealistic" goal. Just stay focused! It's a purely practical constraint. I too would love if organizations were capable of functioning in some other capacity, but in your own words: > someone will be like "wait, isn't our most basic value to just make money?" And also according to you: > Sure So, the best way to get businesses to act in the interest of others is to tie their profit to those other interests, which is the basic principle of the free market. Want resources? Do something for others such that they voluntarily give theirs to you, I.E. do something of value for your customers.
  - whateveracct 4y ago
    You're talking to someone obsessed with money. Just how some people are.
- janalsncm 4y ago
  I don’t see how it’s relevant that profit is easier to optimize. So what? The purpose of a school is to educate.

by munk-a 4y ago

It is a business but arguably it should be more focused on education and community enrichment than pure profits. Not everything in life needs to be focused on profit.

BobbyJo 4y ago

It's far easier to optimize for profit then theoretical ideals. The issue here isn't that they are optimizing for profit, the issue is that incentives have put that pursuit at odds with the university's core mission (education/community), as opposed to keeping it aligned with it. Pursuit of profit should keep you accountable for the services you provide, not detract from them.

komali2 4y ago
So it's easier to optimize for profit, so what? How can your core mission be education but "you're optimizing for profit?" Either your core mission is education or it isn't. I feel like this is the kind of goal setting miss I see businesses make all the time. They'll be doing be doing some version of the ubiquitous value setting activity, and as ideas are pitched someone will be like "wait, isn't our most basic value to just make money?" Sure, whatever, but what does that tell us? A distraction. If money is really so important, just remember the story of the new CEO of iirc a failing iron production business that repeatedly answered the board's questions on how he'll turn profit with "we're going to be the safest iron production business in America." The goal was achieved by fostering a culture of transparency, adopting new technology like emails for internal flat hierarchy communication, etc, and it did become the safest, but also highly profitable. Persuit of profit alone justifies short term behavior constantly. The firing of 20% of your workforce could be seen as justifiable when your goal is persuit of profit. Basically I think it's wrong to try to go cross eyed having "persuit of profit" always there while also trying to set some other "idealistic" goal. Just stay focused!
- WalterBright 4y ago
  The beauty of the free market is that the way to maximize profit is to maximize customer satisfaction.
  - riversflow 4y ago
    Invoking the free market in a discussion about a market as distorted as higher education is laughable. No, the way to maximize profits is to get government(s) to ensure that you are in a favorable position to earn profits. In this case, demanding that most well paying jobs necessitate tertiary education and providing free credit.
    - BobbyJo 4y ago
      Maybe the point is pointing out how distorted the market is, and maybe the distortion is the issue.
  - troops_h8r 4y ago
    Note that customer satisfaction != customer well being (i.e. heroin)
    - WalterBright 4y ago
      The heroin users believe it is in their best interests.
      - troops_h8r 4y ago
        That's my point. It doesn't necessarily mean it is in their best interest - the free market doesn't optimize for people's best interests, it optimizes for people's perception of their best interest (which is usually fine but it's not always the same thing)
        WalterBright 4y ago
        Do you think it is better for the government to decide what's in your best interests?
- BobbyJo 4y ago
  > Basically I think it's wrong to try to go cross eyed having "persuit of profit" always there while also trying to set some other "idealistic" goal. Just stay focused! It's a purely practical constraint. I too would love if organizations were capable of functioning in some other capacity, but in your own words: > someone will be like "wait, isn't our most basic value to just make money?" And also according to you: > Sure So, the best way to get businesses to act in the interest of others is to tie their profit to those other interests, which is the basic principle of the free market. Want resources? Do something for others such that they voluntarily give theirs to you, I.E. do something of value for your customers.
- whateveracct 4y ago
  You're talking to someone obsessed with money. Just how some people are.
janalsncm 4y ago
I don’t see how it’s relevant that profit is easier to optimize. So what? The purpose of a school is to educate.