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Bone headed move. They must have miscalculated if they think the students will cave to this pressure. Also, how can they take away tuition reimbursement for th

by shishy 4y ago

Bone headed move. They must have miscalculated if they think the students will cave to this pressure. Also, how can they take away tuition reimbursement for the whole semester if the strike hasnt been that long? Garbage administration. I hope the students win and that this isnt the new normal.

juujian 4y ago
If there is any group that is unlikely to back down and fold it's probably students. Of course the university also has an endowment of $873 million and whatever administrator wrote that must have a very cushy job. This seems really poorly thought out.
bruceb 4y ago
>They must have miscalculated if they think the students will cave to this pressure. Have they miscalculated? Not a comment on the right or wrong of this action but the article says this 80% of similar grad students have not gone on strike. Would be good to know how distributed across academic fields this strike is. If it is a few from each, then it seems Temple can just wait them out. If it is focused on just one area maybe not. This article is very light on detail.
- VanTheBrand 4y ago
  No, the article doesn’t say that’s, it says that in a statement the university said that. They are (if not outright lying) surely calculating that number in the most favorable way possible probably doing things like include remote grad students, etc.
  - bruceb 4y ago
    true, but if we want to get technical it says over 80%. Could they provide misleading stats sure. But the article also uses a pic from provided by the union which is very tight and so hard to gauge how many people are physically walking the picket line. Could also be misleading.
- jgil 4y ago
  The article is quoting Temple’s VP of Human Resources for that number, and therefore the number can’t be taken at face value.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
icepat 4y ago
> Bone headed move. They must have miscalculated if they think the students will cave to this pressure It´s not about caving, I don´t think. It´s about maximum damage. University administration is one of the most ruthless groups you can come across. They´re well aware that they hold the future ambitions of these students in their hands. Even if they get sued, even if they lose, they´re well aware that they can utterly ruin a sizeable portion of the students they hit with this. They simply can´t afford to fight back, or wait to get the situation resolved.
- the_only_law 4y ago
  > University administration is one of the most ruthless groups you can come across. No joke, I managed to twist my way around bureaucrats for years, but university admissions was the one first I could just never beat
  - icepat 4y ago
    It's a new level of unthinking Kafkaesque bureaucracy. I always felt that admin at university don't only forget they're dealing with humans, but they're borderline misanthropic.
- rwalle 4y ago
  The story of Mackenzie Fierceton is a perfect example. These scumbags in university administration could not care less about ruining a student's future. They have nothing to lose.
  - xiaolingxiao 4y ago
    I concur. The person in the lawsuit Beth winkelstein is an absolute academic bully, eveyone who has ever come across her knows it. It just goes to show how little accountability there is in the University.
  - genocidicbunny 4y ago
    > They have nothing to lose. Which is what I really think the core of the problem is. These people make decisions that can ruin of a whole host of people, but face no accountability for it. I'm of the opinion that there should always be a remedy available for those wronged, and the ones doing the wronging should hope it's only via the court system.
labster 4y ago
Certainly a garbage administration. This is a huge signal to prospective graduate students not to apply to Temple University, a clear signal that they care more about money than your education. Grad students being at the bottom of the administrative priorities is nothing new, but threatening to prevent them from taking classes is a new low.
- juve1996 4y ago
  Higher education has grown disgustingly large. There is no reason grad students, which have driven a good portion of this growth, shouldn't be somewhat rewarded. Once again workers in this country are asking for the bare minimum as they continually get screwed over. Just another cartel taking away from people doing the actual work, with their endless army of bureaucrats.
  - labster 4y ago
    The problem doesn’t stop at the university either. US federal student loans have higher interest rates and fewer forgiveness options than for undergraduates.
akudha 4y ago
Shitty people push/bend the rules as far as they can, to see what they can get away with. If they lose, they don’t lose much. If they win, it becomes the new normal, in their favor. I too hope they lose and are shamed (assuming they feel any shame at all). But I think they know what they’re doing
neilv 4y ago
Many grad students are pretty much completely at the mercy of their advisor and university. Grad students are also very disposable, and, normally, prospective new students will have no idea of the wronged-student body count of any advisor or university. One exception, in this case, is you have a group of students in the US national news, so it might be harder for this university to get grad students in the near future. (Though US affluent families will be sending kids to ride out recession in grad school, and there's only so many admissions slots, so some kids can't be picky about where they go, even if they happen to have been paying attention to the news. And there's also international demand for US grad school slots.)
- kenjackson 4y ago
  > Many grad students are pretty much completely at the mercy of their advisor and university. If your advisor is sympathetic, there's nothing that prevents you from continuing to work on your thesis. If you still have coursework, then you're probably out of luck, but if you're ABD, then you might be just fine. But that would require a sympathetic advisor.

by shishy 4y ago

juujian 4y ago

If there is any group that is unlikely to back down and fold it's probably students. Of course the university also has an endowment of $873 million and whatever administrator wrote that must have a very cushy job. This seems really poorly thought out.

bruceb 4y ago

>They must have miscalculated if they think the students will cave to this pressure. Have they miscalculated? Not a comment on the right or wrong of this action but the article says this 80% of similar grad students have not gone on strike. Would be good to know how distributed across academic fields this strike is. If it is a few from each, then it seems Temple can just wait them out. If it is focused on just one area maybe not. This article is very light on detail.

VanTheBrand 4y ago
No, the article doesn’t say that’s, it says that in a statement the university said that. They are (if not outright lying) surely calculating that number in the most favorable way possible probably doing things like include remote grad students, etc.
- bruceb 4y ago
  true, but if we want to get technical it says over 80%. Could they provide misleading stats sure. But the article also uses a pic from provided by the union which is very tight and so hard to gauge how many people are physically walking the picket line. Could also be misleading.
jgil 4y ago
The article is quoting Temple’s VP of Human Resources for that number, and therefore the number can’t be taken at face value.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

icepat 4y ago

> Bone headed move. They must have miscalculated if they think the students will cave to this pressure It´s not about caving, I don´t think. It´s about maximum damage. University administration is one of the most ruthless groups you can come across. They´re well aware that they hold the future ambitions of these students in their hands. Even if they get sued, even if they lose, they´re well aware that they can utterly ruin a sizeable portion of the students they hit with this. They simply can´t afford to fight back, or wait to get the situation resolved.

the_only_law 4y ago
> University administration is one of the most ruthless groups you can come across. No joke, I managed to twist my way around bureaucrats for years, but university admissions was the one first I could just never beat
- icepat 4y ago
  It's a new level of unthinking Kafkaesque bureaucracy. I always felt that admin at university don't only forget they're dealing with humans, but they're borderline misanthropic.
rwalle 4y ago
The story of Mackenzie Fierceton is a perfect example. These scumbags in university administration could not care less about ruining a student's future. They have nothing to lose.
- xiaolingxiao 4y ago
  I concur. The person in the lawsuit Beth winkelstein is an absolute academic bully, eveyone who has ever come across her knows it. It just goes to show how little accountability there is in the University.
- genocidicbunny 4y ago
  > They have nothing to lose. Which is what I really think the core of the problem is. These people make decisions that can ruin of a whole host of people, but face no accountability for it. I'm of the opinion that there should always be a remedy available for those wronged, and the ones doing the wronging should hope it's only via the court system.

labster 4y ago

Certainly a garbage administration. This is a huge signal to prospective graduate students not to apply to Temple University, a clear signal that they care more about money than your education. Grad students being at the bottom of the administrative priorities is nothing new, but threatening to prevent them from taking classes is a new low.

juve1996 4y ago
Higher education has grown disgustingly large. There is no reason grad students, which have driven a good portion of this growth, shouldn't be somewhat rewarded. Once again workers in this country are asking for the bare minimum as they continually get screwed over. Just another cartel taking away from people doing the actual work, with their endless army of bureaucrats.
- labster 4y ago
  The problem doesn’t stop at the university either. US federal student loans have higher interest rates and fewer forgiveness options than for undergraduates.

akudha 4y ago

Shitty people push/bend the rules as far as they can, to see what they can get away with. If they lose, they don’t lose much. If they win, it becomes the new normal, in their favor. I too hope they lose and are shamed (assuming they feel any shame at all). But I think they know what they’re doing

neilv 4y ago

Many grad students are pretty much completely at the mercy of their advisor and university. Grad students are also very disposable, and, normally, prospective new students will have no idea of the wronged-student body count of any advisor or university. One exception, in this case, is you have a group of students in the US national news, so it might be harder for this university to get grad students in the near future. (Though US affluent families will be sending kids to ride out recession in grad school, and there's only so many admissions slots, so some kids can't be picky about where they go, even if they happen to have been paying attention to the news. And there's also international demand for US grad school slots.)

kenjackson 4y ago
> Many grad students are pretty much completely at the mercy of their advisor and university. If your advisor is sympathetic, there's nothing that prevents you from continuing to work on your thesis. If you still have coursework, then you're probably out of luck, but if you're ABD, then you might be just fine. But that would require a sympathetic advisor.