4 ms·

It's not "gone" as if evaporated; it has been murdered by the certification requirements. The odds of a random stranger dying from a light aircraft falling on

It's not "gone" as if evaporated; it has been murdered by the certification requirements. The odds of a random stranger dying from a light aircraft falling on them are trivial, several orders of magnitude less than the odds of their being hit by a car or being killed by inactivity; the pilot is free to refuse to take off, so risk appraisal really is on them; it's time to dump safety bureaucrats into your nearest woodchipper and CHANGE. THE. LAW. if you want ANY interesting activities or skills to survive.

nimish 4y ago
FAA is incentivized to do nothing and sit on its hands. It's a mess. A good quarter of the country is medically barred from ever flying, even solo. The chances of this changing are 0 and it'll get worse. Insert the "who could have done this" meme with the FAA shooting interest in flying and # of pilots.
- exhilaration 4y ago
  A good quarter of the country is medically barred from ever flying Can you explain this further?
  - selectodude 4y ago
    If you’ve basically ever taken an SSRI, or been to a shrink, you auto-fail your medical.
    - madrush2014 4y ago
      I didn't see that as a black-label warning on the drug information sheet for fluoxetine, or even as being a minor side effect. My shrink didn't mention anything about auto-failing a PPL medical either, but I suspect that was because he was a Freudian.
  - nimish 4y ago
    Just about everyone who has ever undergone psychiatric care cannot ever get a medical. There is technically a process but it is extremely difficult and expensive. Some conditions are uniformly disqualifying, for good reasons. But it results in a perverse situation where a regular person can choose to either get mental health care or fly, but not both.
    - rkochman 4y ago
      People also choose to lie to the FAA.
    - madrush2014 4y ago
      I know reality is sometimes different from official policy, but for the record, straight from the horse's mouth: https://www.faa.gov/pilot-mental-fitness https://www.faa.gov/pilot-mental-fitness For me it's completely moot. I can't even have someone else fly me anymore--I have an (apparently untreatable) eustachian tube dysfunction. ...which is probably for the best given my bearish position on aviation.
  - heelix 4y ago
    Pilots don't suffer from depression, smoke pot, take many types of medication as a child, or have many other issues because if you did - the FAA might pull your medical and you can't fly after that. It can cost tens of thousands to try to get the FAA to let you fly again if a medical gets botched. And that is still an if...
    - blantonl 4y ago
      Pilots don't suffer from depression, smoke pot, take many types of medication as a child, or have many other issues Oh my sweet summer child.
  - bsder 4y ago
    Getting treated for cancer, for example, effectively bars you from flying. There are lots of medical things like this. If these things are that bad, those same people shoudn't be driving either. And this is probably true. However, if you applied these same restrictions to driving, people would absolutely go nuts on you.
    - GeoffKnauth 4y ago
      No, that is not true. I got treated for cancer two years ago (surgery and radiation), it was contained (not metastatic), I have twice since passed a Class 2 Medical. I talked to my Aeromedical Examiner, I talked with my treating doctors, they talked to each other, it worked out -- so far.
- gburdell3 4y ago
  The medical system is really messed up. I would love to eventually get my PPL, but I also highly suspect that I have undiagnosed ADHD, and I don't want to essentially sign away my right to ever get treatment. Fortunately Microsoft Flight Simulator and VATSIM scratch the itch to fly for now, but it still sucks that I'll probably never get to actually do it in real life.
  - outworlder 4y ago
    Disclaimer: this is not legal advice, it's just to give you some ideas. AOPA and EAA have resources that can professional advise you. Note that 'undiagnosed ADHD' holds as much weight as me saying you have bad energies. There are many conditions that masquerade as ADHD to a layperson, including some purely psychological ones (they are no less real, but are very different from a neurodivergent brain and require very different treatment). If you are otherwise a high functioning adult (can function in society, operate vehicles safely, etc), get your third class medical, which should be no problem. You have to disclose diagnosed conditions. Do a discovery flight and ask for an opinion from the flight instructor. If he thinks you are fit, go start your training and enjoy. If, one day, you do get diagnosed (with ADHD or some other disqualifying condition) AND require medication, then it's a problem. If you don't need medication (because most if not all ADHD medications are prohibited), don't try to renew your third class medical (because, if you get denied, it's a big problem) and get advice about BasicMed. It has far less requirements; my understanding is, unless there's something strictly prohibited, if a doctor signs you up you are good to go. You won't be able to fly commercial or faster than 250knots but I suspect you don't care. Failing all the above, there's light sports aircraft and gliders(no medical requirements, you just need judge yourself to be capable and unlikely to be incapacitated) – although I am not sure you can operate them while taking meds; some professional advice required here. Disclaimer 2: Obviously the above assumes that whatever you have does not impair you. This is just to get around FAA's antiquated view on mental health while complying with the law. The most important thing is to be safe. If you really can't due to health issues, then don't, even if a doctor says you are fine. Otherwise, don't give up!
    - selectodude 4y ago
aredox 4y ago
It's not the certification: flying is an expensive hobby, with a huge time commitment. People have moved on to other hobbies and fads. We see the same with dinghy sailing. It used to be a big scene with hundreds of ordinary people showing up for regattas. It was killed by windsurfing (at least here in Europe) and just people moving on to other things ,not regulation of any sort.
- yetanotherloser 4y ago
  I dunno. I'm pretty sure the lack of barriers to entry, inconvenient and costly certification, and safety nannying helped windsurfing get ahead there too. That and dinghy clubs inevitably devolve into race clubs that revolve inexorably around the race safety boat, and if you just want to noodle about or explore you're out of luck unless you are geographically lucky or you can afford a yacht. (which is great. But it's an uncommon privilege)
- outworlder 4y ago
  > It's not the certification: flying is an expensive hobby, with a huge time commitment. People have plenty of expensive and time consuming hobbies. All hobbies are at least time-consuming, that's what a hobby is. All certifications add to the expenses. It's the reason why one can't buy a headset off amazon and have to pay 1k for a used headset. Sure, safety requires certifications but I guess we went overboard. It's also the reason why GA aircraft are expensive to this day, even those build 40 years ago. It's pretty expensive to keep maintaining old tech at low volumes. I'm rooting for Diamond and their car-derived engines (as well as the Experimental aircraft scene). Note that boats are also notoriously expensive. There's a very good parallel to your example: gliders. You want to fly cheap (just to fly, not to go places)? Go soaring. Problem is, it's even more location-dependent.
- rlpb 4y ago
  That's a circular argument. Recreational flying is an expensive hobby because of the certification barrier. Most of the price is in fuel inefficiencies and expensive maintenance of ancient engine designs. Airframe parts are expensive because they're obscure and certification requirements prevent modern equivalents from being used instead. And so forth.

nimish 4y ago

FAA is incentivized to do nothing and sit on its hands. It's a mess. A good quarter of the country is medically barred from ever flying, even solo. The chances of this changing are 0 and it'll get worse. Insert the "who could have done this" meme with the FAA shooting interest in flying and # of pilots.

exhilaration 4y ago
A good quarter of the country is medically barred from ever flying Can you explain this further?
- selectodude 4y ago
  If you’ve basically ever taken an SSRI, or been to a shrink, you auto-fail your medical.
  - madrush2014 4y ago
    I didn't see that as a black-label warning on the drug information sheet for fluoxetine, or even as being a minor side effect. My shrink didn't mention anything about auto-failing a PPL medical either, but I suspect that was because he was a Freudian.
- nimish 4y ago
  Just about everyone who has ever undergone psychiatric care cannot ever get a medical. There is technically a process but it is extremely difficult and expensive. Some conditions are uniformly disqualifying, for good reasons. But it results in a perverse situation where a regular person can choose to either get mental health care or fly, but not both.
  - rkochman 4y ago
    People also choose to lie to the FAA.
  - madrush2014 4y ago
    I know reality is sometimes different from official policy, but for the record, straight from the horse's mouth: https://www.faa.gov/pilot-mental-fitness https://www.faa.gov/pilot-mental-fitness For me it's completely moot. I can't even have someone else fly me anymore--I have an (apparently untreatable) eustachian tube dysfunction. ...which is probably for the best given my bearish position on aviation.
- heelix 4y ago
  Pilots don't suffer from depression, smoke pot, take many types of medication as a child, or have many other issues because if you did - the FAA might pull your medical and you can't fly after that. It can cost tens of thousands to try to get the FAA to let you fly again if a medical gets botched. And that is still an if...
  - blantonl 4y ago
    Pilots don't suffer from depression, smoke pot, take many types of medication as a child, or have many other issues Oh my sweet summer child.
- bsder 4y ago
  Getting treated for cancer, for example, effectively bars you from flying. There are lots of medical things like this. If these things are that bad, those same people shoudn't be driving either. And this is probably true. However, if you applied these same restrictions to driving, people would absolutely go nuts on you.
  - GeoffKnauth 4y ago
    No, that is not true. I got treated for cancer two years ago (surgery and radiation), it was contained (not metastatic), I have twice since passed a Class 2 Medical. I talked to my Aeromedical Examiner, I talked with my treating doctors, they talked to each other, it worked out -- so far.
gburdell3 4y ago
The medical system is really messed up. I would love to eventually get my PPL, but I also highly suspect that I have undiagnosed ADHD, and I don't want to essentially sign away my right to ever get treatment. Fortunately Microsoft Flight Simulator and VATSIM scratch the itch to fly for now, but it still sucks that I'll probably never get to actually do it in real life.
- outworlder 4y ago
  Disclaimer: this is not legal advice, it's just to give you some ideas. AOPA and EAA have resources that can professional advise you. Note that 'undiagnosed ADHD' holds as much weight as me saying you have bad energies. There are many conditions that masquerade as ADHD to a layperson, including some purely psychological ones (they are no less real, but are very different from a neurodivergent brain and require very different treatment). If you are otherwise a high functioning adult (can function in society, operate vehicles safely, etc), get your third class medical, which should be no problem. You have to disclose diagnosed conditions. Do a discovery flight and ask for an opinion from the flight instructor. If he thinks you are fit, go start your training and enjoy. If, one day, you do get diagnosed (with ADHD or some other disqualifying condition) AND require medication, then it's a problem. If you don't need medication (because most if not all ADHD medications are prohibited), don't try to renew your third class medical (because, if you get denied, it's a big problem) and get advice about BasicMed. It has far less requirements; my understanding is, unless there's something strictly prohibited, if a doctor signs you up you are good to go. You won't be able to fly commercial or faster than 250knots but I suspect you don't care. Failing all the above, there's light sports aircraft and gliders(no medical requirements, you just need judge yourself to be capable and unlikely to be incapacitated) – although I am not sure you can operate them while taking meds; some professional advice required here. Disclaimer 2: Obviously the above assumes that whatever you have does not impair you. This is just to get around FAA's antiquated view on mental health while complying with the law. The most important thing is to be safe. If you really can't due to health issues, then don't, even if a doctor says you are fine. Otherwise, don't give up!
  - selectodude 4y ago

aredox 4y ago

It's not the certification: flying is an expensive hobby, with a huge time commitment. People have moved on to other hobbies and fads. We see the same with dinghy sailing. It used to be a big scene with hundreds of ordinary people showing up for regattas. It was killed by windsurfing (at least here in Europe) and just people moving on to other things ,not regulation of any sort.

yetanotherloser 4y ago
I dunno. I'm pretty sure the lack of barriers to entry, inconvenient and costly certification, and safety nannying helped windsurfing get ahead there too. That and dinghy clubs inevitably devolve into race clubs that revolve inexorably around the race safety boat, and if you just want to noodle about or explore you're out of luck unless you are geographically lucky or you can afford a yacht. (which is great. But it's an uncommon privilege)
outworlder 4y ago
> It's not the certification: flying is an expensive hobby, with a huge time commitment. People have plenty of expensive and time consuming hobbies. All hobbies are at least time-consuming, that's what a hobby is. All certifications add to the expenses. It's the reason why one can't buy a headset off amazon and have to pay 1k for a used headset. Sure, safety requires certifications but I guess we went overboard. It's also the reason why GA aircraft are expensive to this day, even those build 40 years ago. It's pretty expensive to keep maintaining old tech at low volumes. I'm rooting for Diamond and their car-derived engines (as well as the Experimental aircraft scene). Note that boats are also notoriously expensive. There's a very good parallel to your example: gliders. You want to fly cheap (just to fly, not to go places)? Go soaring. Problem is, it's even more location-dependent.
rlpb 4y ago
That's a circular argument. Recreational flying is an expensive hobby because of the certification barrier. Most of the price is in fuel inefficiencies and expensive maintenance of ancient engine designs. Airframe parts are expensive because they're obscure and certification requirements prevent modern equivalents from being used instead. And so forth.