3 ms·

For what it's worth, your first link show's the "same death rate" but there were only 330 covid positives in that dataset. So the death rate is equal between p

by scld 4y ago

For what it's worth, your first link show's the "same death rate" but there were only 330 covid positives in that dataset. So the death rate is equal between placebo and vaccine means that the vaccine doesn't kill at any higher rate than placebo. Given the population in Moderna's trials, how many deaths should one expect in the covid-positive placebo group? 0.2? Either way, it would round down to 0.

breck 4y ago
I very much agree with you. However, had they actually run a proper long term study as was originally planned (2 years), we would have had conclusive results. I suspect they knew the results would show clearly and definitely that the vaccine saved no lives, if not worse, and so they dishonorably ended the control group early (and their cronies at the FDA/CDC allowed them to get away with it). Tens of billions of dollars will get people to do quite unethical things.
- lern_too_spel 4y ago
  The reason they cut it short was that it was unethical to let more of the control group get severe COVID-19, so they had to be informed.
  - breck 4y ago
    That was the stated reason. It was a lie. The math is clear. Risking tens of millions of lives (in long term adverse effects or over estimated efficacy) to save at most a few dozen, with no evidence at all to believe you are saving anyone (death rates were same), does not make any sense. The real reason was the billions of dollars to be made by covering up the truth.
    - lern_too_spel 4y ago
      Indeed, the math is clear. At the time they told the participants if they got the placebo, they already knew that the vaccine prevented severe illness. Since then, all the data confirms that in doing so, it also reduces deaths. https://ysph.yale.edu/news-article/study-finds-large-gap-in-excess-deaths-along-partisan-lines-after-covid-19-vaccines-introduced/ https://ysph.yale.edu/news-article/study-finds-large-gap-in-... https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/new-study-shows-fewer-people-die-from-covid-19-in-better-vaccinated-communities/ https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/new-study-shows-fewer-p... https://ourworldindata.org/covid-deaths-by-vaccination https://ourworldindata.org/covid-deaths-by-vaccination

by scld 4y ago

breck 4y ago

I very much agree with you. However, had they actually run a proper long term study as was originally planned (2 years), we would have had conclusive results. I suspect they knew the results would show clearly and definitely that the vaccine saved no lives, if not worse, and so they dishonorably ended the control group early (and their cronies at the FDA/CDC allowed them to get away with it). Tens of billions of dollars will get people to do quite unethical things.

lern_too_spel 4y ago
The reason they cut it short was that it was unethical to let more of the control group get severe COVID-19, so they had to be informed.
- breck 4y ago
  That was the stated reason. It was a lie. The math is clear. Risking tens of millions of lives (in long term adverse effects or over estimated efficacy) to save at most a few dozen, with no evidence at all to believe you are saving anyone (death rates were same), does not make any sense. The real reason was the billions of dollars to be made by covering up the truth.
  - lern_too_spel 4y ago
    Indeed, the math is clear. At the time they told the participants if they got the placebo, they already knew that the vaccine prevented severe illness. Since then, all the data confirms that in doing so, it also reduces deaths. https://ysph.yale.edu/news-article/study-finds-large-gap-in-excess-deaths-along-partisan-lines-after-covid-19-vaccines-introduced/ https://ysph.yale.edu/news-article/study-finds-large-gap-in-... https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/new-study-shows-fewer-people-die-from-covid-19-in-better-vaccinated-communities/ https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/new-study-shows-fewer-p... https://ourworldindata.org/covid-deaths-by-vaccination https://ourworldindata.org/covid-deaths-by-vaccination