3 ms·

>it seems unlikely What are you basing this on?

readyplayeremma 4y ago
Our existing computing platforms are very specific and very limited. Without knowledge of that specific design and the accompanying limitations, how could you pre-craft a non-interactive "exploit" that could be executed by such a system? I do think that it becomes more possible if we have AGI-like systems doing detection and analysis, but we do not. In addition, any universal exploit against AGI systems would probably have to be universal enough to also affect human intelligence.
- godelski 4y ago
  For a clearer example, there's a reason a virus that affects Windows doesn't affect Linux. Or a virus that affects Windows XP doesn't affect Windows 11. There are of course counter examples, but this is the trend. To understand why the counter examples exist requires expert knowledge (or rather that there are basically the same things running in the same way).
  - edgyquant 4y ago
    We are currently discussing exploits designs by foreign intelligences to infect artificially intelligent systems. We are not talking about privilege escalation on a Mac.
    - stevenhuang 4y ago
      That's where you're confused. The only one insisting the topic under discussion is the infection of AI systems (as opposed to classical computing systems) is you...
      - edgyquant 4y ago
        Except the proposed question was what if the signals were designed to only be detected by societies who’ve invented AI…
        stevenhuang 4y ago
        The specific thread you are on is about current systems. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34729927 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34729927
- edgyquant 4y ago
  These exploits act on the AI, not the hardware. I’m well aware of how human crafted exploits currently work.
throwbadubadu 4y ago
We've built enough stupid complexity* that either the aliens must already have spied it out completely (but if they done that they could likely overtake is in any way quickly..), or it just won't happen. (*) I mean seriously, how would you design a virus in some limited signal that has a chance of overtaking any arbitrary specific system someone may have invented, that's impossible. Never say never maybe my imagination is too small..
- edgyquant 4y ago
  It would likely be pretty “easy” to design a signal that tricks convolutional networks etc. no need to care about the underlying hardware
wpietri 4y ago
Good point! There's a bit in one of Larry Niven's books, possibly Ringworld. The protagonists are worried about what novel aliens might do. Somebody proposes ducking into hyperspace, where tracking them is "theoretically impossible". Another character responds, "What if they use different theories?" That something seems unlikely to a human used to dealing with other humans at the same or lower technology level to me says more about humans than about what's possible.
- groffee 4y ago
  Reminds me of an episode of Stargate where they fire 'stealth' (invisible to radar) nukes at the Goa'uld ships, and they're just stood looking out the window at them! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvBsXxNc7k8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvBsXxNc7k8 Anyone who says anything like "it's impossible" etc just has a complete lack of imagination.

Our existing computing platforms are very specific and very limited. Without knowledge of that specific design and the accompanying limitations, how could you pre-craft a non-interactive "exploit" that could be executed by such a system? I do think that it becomes more possible if we have AGI-like systems doing detection and analysis, but we do not. In addition, any universal exploit against AGI systems would probably have to be universal enough to also affect human intelligence.

godelski 4y ago
For a clearer example, there's a reason a virus that affects Windows doesn't affect Linux. Or a virus that affects Windows XP doesn't affect Windows 11. There are of course counter examples, but this is the trend. To understand why the counter examples exist requires expert knowledge (or rather that there are basically the same things running in the same way).
- edgyquant 4y ago
  We are currently discussing exploits designs by foreign intelligences to infect artificially intelligent systems. We are not talking about privilege escalation on a Mac.
  - stevenhuang 4y ago
    That's where you're confused. The only one insisting the topic under discussion is the infection of AI systems (as opposed to classical computing systems) is you...
    - edgyquant 4y ago
      Except the proposed question was what if the signals were designed to only be detected by societies who’ve invented AI…
      - stevenhuang 4y ago
        The specific thread you are on is about current systems. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34729927 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34729927
edgyquant 4y ago
These exploits act on the AI, not the hardware. I’m well aware of how human crafted exploits currently work.

throwbadubadu 4y ago

We've built enough stupid complexity* that either the aliens must already have spied it out completely (but if they done that they could likely overtake is in any way quickly..), or it just won't happen. (*) I mean seriously, how would you design a virus in some limited signal that has a chance of overtaking any arbitrary specific system someone may have invented, that's impossible. Never say never maybe my imagination is too small..

edgyquant 4y ago
It would likely be pretty “easy” to design a signal that tricks convolutional networks etc. no need to care about the underlying hardware

wpietri 4y ago

Good point! There's a bit in one of Larry Niven's books, possibly Ringworld. The protagonists are worried about what novel aliens might do. Somebody proposes ducking into hyperspace, where tracking them is "theoretically impossible". Another character responds, "What if they use different theories?" That something seems unlikely to a human used to dealing with other humans at the same or lower technology level to me says more about humans than about what's possible.

groffee 4y ago
Reminds me of an episode of Stargate where they fire 'stealth' (invisible to radar) nukes at the Goa'uld ships, and they're just stood looking out the window at them! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvBsXxNc7k8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvBsXxNc7k8 Anyone who says anything like "it's impossible" etc just has a complete lack of imagination.