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They’re all much cheaper than they were and more advanced by leaps and bounds. GA airplane production collapsed from a peak production of 17k a year in the 197

They’re all much cheaper than they were and more advanced by leaps and bounds. GA airplane production collapsed from a peak production of 17k a year in the 1970s to a few thousand a year starting in the 90s continuing to today. Cars and tractors and tanks and even jets have all seen their markets grow, not disappear.

Retric 4y ago
That’s sometimes true but the standards have improved so much it’s hard to do these comparisons. A new Model T in 1925 cost had fallen to 260$, that’s roughly $4,348 in todays money. Sure it’s missing a great deal of modern features, but it’s hard to get a new golf cart at that price.
- HPsquared 4y ago
  Very basic cars, similar to (probably better than) the Model T can still be made. For example the Tata Nano. People can afford much nicer cars now. Regulations also require decent crash safety. There's not much of a market for these kinds of super-cheap cars. Though it'd be interesting to work out how much an exact clone of the Model T would cost today (mass produced using modern technology).
  - lazide 4y ago
    Mass produced with modern tech? Probably sub $1k and sold at harbor freight. The model T was pretty simple, and you can buy engines with waaaay more power - and longer life, quieter, more efficient, etc. too for sub $500 at harbor freight and strap it to a frame, and off you go.
    - beamgirl 4y ago
      I actually doubt that. The raw materials in the T would be pretty expensive now. The vanadium steel for the chassis alone would probably cost a grand.
      - lazide 4y ago
        They’d just pinch weld together some sheet steel. Assuming we’re talking ‘functional equivalent’, compared to ‘exact copy’.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - beowulfey 4y ago
    It’s funny you use the term “afford”. People generally can’t afford modern cars, but thanks to buying on credit becoming such a big part of our culture (curiously enough, also thanks to Ford) we can pretend that we can!
    - Retric 4y ago
      I suspect most people buying new cars could actually afford to buy a new car without using credit. The difference is companies want you to make poor financial decisions.
      - gateorade 4y ago
        The numbers suggest this is false, for the US at least. The oft-repeated study comes into mind that 47% of Americans can't cover a surprise 500 dollar expense without it being a major worry. See also the fact that the average new car purchased in the US today is 50 grand. I know I'm comparing apples and oranges here but if both those stats are true then it's clear there's likely a large overlap between people who are broke and people who are driving expensive cars. Aside from that, there's the fact that if you can actually afford it, then it's likely better to finance than to pay cash because you can invest the full purchase price of the car for a higher return than the interest you would pay.
        Retric 4y ago
        On average a new car buyers keeps their car 8.4 years, while cars are lasting 25 years. Thus new car buyers are literally quite different than the average American. Anyway, that’s an unexpected 500$ expense. My point was people financing a 50+k new car could fairly easily buy a 17,600 car out of pocket by waiting a little longer before purchase. Large scale changes in purchasing habits would have significant knock on effects for the used car market, but that’s another story.
        beowulfey 4y ago
        Did you mean buying a new used car vs a new car? That would financially be a better choice for most americans, yes. But of course you then run into the uncertainty of how long the used car you buy might go before it needs major service. A riskier option that loosely reflects the Pratchett/Vimes “new boots” theory.
Plasmoid 4y ago
"Fun" fact - it was the lawyers that did it. There was a real nasty lawsuit against one of the GA manufacturers. I believe it was Cirrus but it could be Cessna. Basically, this person sued everyone because their relative died in a flight. I mean everyone, if your part could be installed in this aircraft, sued. The result was that Cessna stopped making the 172 in 1986 because the legal liability was too high. The most popular aircraft ever made was not for sale because of the liability. Production has resumed but something like 50% of the cost is just liability insurance for the inevitable lawsuit.
- fsckboy 4y ago
  could it have been Beechcraft? They made the Bonanza, not so affectionately called the "fork-tailed Dr killer" and maybe not so fairly either. I think they weren't particularly unsafe, but being more expensive they had a different population flying them.
  - fijiaarone 4y ago
    Those swinging yokes on the Beechcraft Bonanza were way weirder than the V tail.
  - AdrianB1 4y ago
    No, the rate of accidents with Bonanza was found to be caused not by any defect of the airplane, but the high performance airplane-low pilot skill combination. It was a had too big for many people.
- coredog64 4y ago
  In the mid 90s, Congress passed a law capping the liability tail for manufacturers. That helped some, in that most of the planes from the 50s and 60s were off the manufacturer’s books. But it’s still crazy because GA is a high income pursuit. So any lawsuit for lifetime earnings is going to be huge.

Retric 4y ago

That’s sometimes true but the standards have improved so much it’s hard to do these comparisons. A new Model T in 1925 cost had fallen to 260$, that’s roughly $4,348 in todays money. Sure it’s missing a great deal of modern features, but it’s hard to get a new golf cart at that price.

HPsquared 4y ago
Very basic cars, similar to (probably better than) the Model T can still be made. For example the Tata Nano. People can afford much nicer cars now. Regulations also require decent crash safety. There's not much of a market for these kinds of super-cheap cars. Though it'd be interesting to work out how much an exact clone of the Model T would cost today (mass produced using modern technology).
- lazide 4y ago
  Mass produced with modern tech? Probably sub $1k and sold at harbor freight. The model T was pretty simple, and you can buy engines with waaaay more power - and longer life, quieter, more efficient, etc. too for sub $500 at harbor freight and strap it to a frame, and off you go.
  - beamgirl 4y ago
    I actually doubt that. The raw materials in the T would be pretty expensive now. The vanadium steel for the chassis alone would probably cost a grand.
    - lazide 4y ago
      They’d just pinch weld together some sheet steel. Assuming we’re talking ‘functional equivalent’, compared to ‘exact copy’.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- beowulfey 4y ago
  It’s funny you use the term “afford”. People generally can’t afford modern cars, but thanks to buying on credit becoming such a big part of our culture (curiously enough, also thanks to Ford) we can pretend that we can!
  - Retric 4y ago
    I suspect most people buying new cars could actually afford to buy a new car without using credit. The difference is companies want you to make poor financial decisions.
    - gateorade 4y ago
      The numbers suggest this is false, for the US at least. The oft-repeated study comes into mind that 47% of Americans can't cover a surprise 500 dollar expense without it being a major worry. See also the fact that the average new car purchased in the US today is 50 grand. I know I'm comparing apples and oranges here but if both those stats are true then it's clear there's likely a large overlap between people who are broke and people who are driving expensive cars. Aside from that, there's the fact that if you can actually afford it, then it's likely better to finance than to pay cash because you can invest the full purchase price of the car for a higher return than the interest you would pay.
      - Retric 4y ago
        On average a new car buyers keeps their car 8.4 years, while cars are lasting 25 years. Thus new car buyers are literally quite different than the average American. Anyway, that’s an unexpected 500$ expense. My point was people financing a 50+k new car could fairly easily buy a 17,600 car out of pocket by waiting a little longer before purchase. Large scale changes in purchasing habits would have significant knock on effects for the used car market, but that’s another story.
        beowulfey 4y ago
        Did you mean buying a new used car vs a new car? That would financially be a better choice for most americans, yes. But of course you then run into the uncertainty of how long the used car you buy might go before it needs major service. A riskier option that loosely reflects the Pratchett/Vimes “new boots” theory.

Plasmoid 4y ago

"Fun" fact - it was the lawyers that did it. There was a real nasty lawsuit against one of the GA manufacturers. I believe it was Cirrus but it could be Cessna. Basically, this person sued everyone because their relative died in a flight. I mean everyone, if your part could be installed in this aircraft, sued. The result was that Cessna stopped making the 172 in 1986 because the legal liability was too high. The most popular aircraft ever made was not for sale because of the liability. Production has resumed but something like 50% of the cost is just liability insurance for the inevitable lawsuit.

fsckboy 4y ago
could it have been Beechcraft? They made the Bonanza, not so affectionately called the "fork-tailed Dr killer" and maybe not so fairly either. I think they weren't particularly unsafe, but being more expensive they had a different population flying them.
- fijiaarone 4y ago
  Those swinging yokes on the Beechcraft Bonanza were way weirder than the V tail.
- AdrianB1 4y ago
  No, the rate of accidents with Bonanza was found to be caused not by any defect of the airplane, but the high performance airplane-low pilot skill combination. It was a had too big for many people.
coredog64 4y ago
In the mid 90s, Congress passed a law capping the liability tail for manufacturers. That helped some, in that most of the planes from the 50s and 60s were off the manufacturer’s books. But it’s still crazy because GA is a high income pursuit. So any lawsuit for lifetime earnings is going to be huge.