4 ms·

So if a doc recommends a $1M expense to keep my drugged out dad alive for another day, as I a piece of shit for saying that does not make sense?

gwbas1c 4y ago
Doctors don't make those kinds of recommendations.
- oneoff786 4y ago
  It is hyperbole for sure, but there are plenty of real world cases where I would find the cost benefit not worth it. Personally I would find the cost benefit not worth it for any situation that has me lying feebly on opioids until I die. But the point remains. If you can’t agree with the hyperbole then you’re in the wrong making grand blanket statements about the way things work and saying nothing can convince you otherwise
  - gwbas1c 4y ago
    > It is hyperbole for sure, but there are plenty of real world cases where I would find the cost benefit not worth it. I married a doctor. That doesn't happen. What does happen is that the loved ones, or social workers, push for the doctors to do everything possible, even when the doctors know that it's a futile situation. When people encounter loss they do not behave rationally. > Personally I would find the cost benefit not worth it for any situation that has me lying feebly on opioids until I die. "lying feebly on opioids until I die" is what happens when someone's body is shutting down from a painful condition like cancer. Hopefully you're lucky and die in your sleep of old age. Unfortunately, assisted suicide is illegal in most places. Generally what's legal is to let nature take its course, and your caregivers, (who can be trusted family members) decide how often to give you opioids. It's well known that painkillers at the end of life accelerate death, so as long as your wishes are known to the people giving you painkillers, the "lying feebly on opioids until I die" can be very short. (Read between the lines.)
    - oneoff786 4y ago
      You’ve listed a bunch of facts here which are generally true but they don’t mean anything in regards to whatever point you’re trying to make. My point is simply that it’s reasonable to make cost benefit analyses when deciding end of life care, and that you’re not an asshole for doing so.
  - antisthenes 4y ago
    > If you can’t agree with the hyperbole then you’re in the wrong making grand blanket statements about the way things work and saying nothing can convince you otherwise You don't get to magically negate my argument with a strawman you invented, sorry. If you don't want the described case to be your own case, then make the necessary arrangements where the doctor isn't making such decisions.
    - oneoff786 4y ago
      You asserted > Those 2 groups of people will firmly be labeled as pieces of shit in my mind and no amount of arguments will ever sway that position. But are now implying that you would be agree with my example if it were true. Thus demonstrating that your statement is wrong. You are willing to engage in cost benefit analysis for elder care. This case is simply easy and improbable to arise. We can play with the numbers until you think it’s realistic and unreasonable. The point remains. Straw men are dumb. But not as dumb as absolute sweeping statements of certainty. There are many, many cases of expensive medical treatments that extend life in a miserable fashion. There are many cases of expensive medical treatments that extend life in a non miserable fashion. Doesn’t mean they make sense to do. Doesn’t make you an asshole to think about it.

gwbas1c 4y ago

Doctors don't make those kinds of recommendations.

oneoff786 4y ago
It is hyperbole for sure, but there are plenty of real world cases where I would find the cost benefit not worth it. Personally I would find the cost benefit not worth it for any situation that has me lying feebly on opioids until I die. But the point remains. If you can’t agree with the hyperbole then you’re in the wrong making grand blanket statements about the way things work and saying nothing can convince you otherwise
- gwbas1c 4y ago
  > It is hyperbole for sure, but there are plenty of real world cases where I would find the cost benefit not worth it. I married a doctor. That doesn't happen. What does happen is that the loved ones, or social workers, push for the doctors to do everything possible, even when the doctors know that it's a futile situation. When people encounter loss they do not behave rationally. > Personally I would find the cost benefit not worth it for any situation that has me lying feebly on opioids until I die. "lying feebly on opioids until I die" is what happens when someone's body is shutting down from a painful condition like cancer. Hopefully you're lucky and die in your sleep of old age. Unfortunately, assisted suicide is illegal in most places. Generally what's legal is to let nature take its course, and your caregivers, (who can be trusted family members) decide how often to give you opioids. It's well known that painkillers at the end of life accelerate death, so as long as your wishes are known to the people giving you painkillers, the "lying feebly on opioids until I die" can be very short. (Read between the lines.)
  - oneoff786 4y ago
    You’ve listed a bunch of facts here which are generally true but they don’t mean anything in regards to whatever point you’re trying to make. My point is simply that it’s reasonable to make cost benefit analyses when deciding end of life care, and that you’re not an asshole for doing so.
- antisthenes 4y ago
  > If you can’t agree with the hyperbole then you’re in the wrong making grand blanket statements about the way things work and saying nothing can convince you otherwise You don't get to magically negate my argument with a strawman you invented, sorry. If you don't want the described case to be your own case, then make the necessary arrangements where the doctor isn't making such decisions.
  - oneoff786 4y ago
    You asserted > Those 2 groups of people will firmly be labeled as pieces of shit in my mind and no amount of arguments will ever sway that position. But are now implying that you would be agree with my example if it were true. Thus demonstrating that your statement is wrong. You are willing to engage in cost benefit analysis for elder care. This case is simply easy and improbable to arise. We can play with the numbers until you think it’s realistic and unreasonable. The point remains. Straw men are dumb. But not as dumb as absolute sweeping statements of certainty. There are many, many cases of expensive medical treatments that extend life in a miserable fashion. There are many cases of expensive medical treatments that extend life in a non miserable fashion. Doesn’t mean they make sense to do. Doesn’t make you an asshole to think about it.