5 ms·

Officies, especially the great ones (as in also very expensive) create an irrational emotional attachment and are very hard to downsize on them without impactin

Officies, especially the great ones (as in also very expensive) create an irrational emotional attachment and are very hard to downsize on them without impacting morale.

FollowingTheDao 4y ago
It’s disturbing to think that people think human connection is irrational. I guess y’all forgot that that was how labor unions were formed.
- Sebb767 4y ago
  It's not that the human connection is immoral, it's just that paying rent and heating for a pretty empty office space doesn't make much sense. As long as there is sufficient space for all the employees that want to go to the office, being against downsizing doesn't make much sense.
- karmasimida 4y ago
  Office is where people used work, it is not a monument which I think many here seem to make it so If no one is working there anywhere it doesn’t need to exist
- cheriot 4y ago
  human connection to a workplace is why unions formed? I thought it was the hours, dangerous working conditions, and unlivable pay.
- microtherion 4y ago
  Having recently spent a few weeks in large, quite nice, but nearly empty offices (because I wanted to work in office for a change, but most of my cow orkers had other plans), I realized that holding on to oversized offices can backfire, because as nice as the space is, it felt somewhat demoralizing after a while to be nearly alone in such a vast building.
  - turdprincess 4y ago
    It seems like the thing to do is to downsize offices until they correctly meet usage. So, take your number of employees, multiply by percentage that usually comes into the office, add a buffer for growth, and have an office for that.
    - 0cf8612b2e1e 4y ago
      Commercial leases are usually multi year affairs, so difficult to titrate this ratio.
- drusepth 4y ago
  I'm not sure human connection is an equal comparison with offices. There's plenty of human connection, both in person and not, to be had with coworkers without centralized offices.
- WorldMaker 4y ago
  Most of the history of labor unions involved meeting in secret in venues outside of work's control. Very few labor unions were ever formed in the halls of an office building. Also, human connnection isn't irrational, but expecting all or most of your human connections to come from your job may be.
  - FollowingTheDao 4y ago
    "Officies, especially the great ones (as in also very expensive) create an irrational emotional attachment " I was responding to that part. Office create a rational connection in an irrational setting. My grandfather and most of my great uncles were coal miners in Shamokin, Pennsylvania. They all talked about unions and striking in the mines. And they formed close bonds which made going on strike much easier as well as created a huge social bond when they where striking supplying each other with food and pirated coal.
    - Raed667 4y ago
      Ok that might have been poorly worded on my end. The irrational attachment I was talking about is about having a large, status-symbol office with ~20% average occupancy. Downsizing to a smaller office harms morale even though most people work most of the time at home, yet they feel attached to almost always empty office, that's the irrational/sentimental part for me.
chris222 4y ago
Not true! I worked at what some would consider one of the top offices (Dropbox). They went remote and the polling was something like 70% support 30% oppose. There were some vocal supporters of in-office (mostly due to the perks like food) but they gave a generous stipend instead to satisfy most people.
- tracker1 4y ago
  I find I work better in an office myself... been remote for about 3 years now, and I've gotten used to it. I miss lunch with coworkers, etc... and some of the more spontaneous discussions don't happen nearly as much... Also, I like a relatively short commute (around 30m) long enough to clear the mind before/after work.
  - frognumber 4y ago
    For me, work environment makes a huge difference. I work like crap in cubicle farms and typical corporate offices. I feel like I'm on display. I work best in a private office, with a door that closes, a window that looks out on nature, and a very large whiteboard. Ideally, I'd like my team members have similar ones. Home is in between. I can work much longer hours if I can: - do basic basic bodily functions (stretching, eating, drinking, scratching, a short power nap, etc.) - change work positions (e.g. lie down with a laptop) - make noise (phone calls, music, etc.) - have my papers and books spread out as I see fit ... and so on. I have never seen a tech firm where I was comfortable in the office, and it's especially hard in places like SFO/BOS/NYC/etc. where square feet cost so much. My past few jobs weren't with tech firms, and I really enjoyed working in proper offices.
  - jrochkind1 4y ago
    Same. But I used to have a walking commute, which I also miss. Certainly I wouldn't miss a commute longer than 30 minutes. And I'd probably miss it less if it were in an office park somewhere, rather than a city I could walk to lunch at various places. But yeah, I have a remote job because that's the job I have that I'm well-suited for that was available. (And sure, ability to work from one 1 or 2 days a week or as needed would certainly be convenient regardless). But I don't actually prefer working remotely, and also think there are real losses to quality of collaborative work, as well as quality of life. I know this is heretical to say these days in these circles.

Officies, especially the great ones (as in also very expensive) create an irrational emotional attachment and are very hard to downsize on them without impacting morale.

FollowingTheDao 4y ago

It’s disturbing to think that people think human connection is irrational. I guess y’all forgot that that was how labor unions were formed.

Sebb767 4y ago
It's not that the human connection is immoral, it's just that paying rent and heating for a pretty empty office space doesn't make much sense. As long as there is sufficient space for all the employees that want to go to the office, being against downsizing doesn't make much sense.
karmasimida 4y ago
Office is where people used work, it is not a monument which I think many here seem to make it so If no one is working there anywhere it doesn’t need to exist
cheriot 4y ago
human connection to a workplace is why unions formed? I thought it was the hours, dangerous working conditions, and unlivable pay.
microtherion 4y ago
Having recently spent a few weeks in large, quite nice, but nearly empty offices (because I wanted to work in office for a change, but most of my cow orkers had other plans), I realized that holding on to oversized offices can backfire, because as nice as the space is, it felt somewhat demoralizing after a while to be nearly alone in such a vast building.
- turdprincess 4y ago
  It seems like the thing to do is to downsize offices until they correctly meet usage. So, take your number of employees, multiply by percentage that usually comes into the office, add a buffer for growth, and have an office for that.
  - 0cf8612b2e1e 4y ago
    Commercial leases are usually multi year affairs, so difficult to titrate this ratio.
drusepth 4y ago
I'm not sure human connection is an equal comparison with offices. There's plenty of human connection, both in person and not, to be had with coworkers without centralized offices.
WorldMaker 4y ago
Most of the history of labor unions involved meeting in secret in venues outside of work's control. Very few labor unions were ever formed in the halls of an office building. Also, human connnection isn't irrational, but expecting all or most of your human connections to come from your job may be.
- FollowingTheDao 4y ago
  "Officies, especially the great ones (as in also very expensive) create an irrational emotional attachment " I was responding to that part. Office create a rational connection in an irrational setting. My grandfather and most of my great uncles were coal miners in Shamokin, Pennsylvania. They all talked about unions and striking in the mines. And they formed close bonds which made going on strike much easier as well as created a huge social bond when they where striking supplying each other with food and pirated coal.
  - Raed667 4y ago
    Ok that might have been poorly worded on my end. The irrational attachment I was talking about is about having a large, status-symbol office with ~20% average occupancy. Downsizing to a smaller office harms morale even though most people work most of the time at home, yet they feel attached to almost always empty office, that's the irrational/sentimental part for me.

chris222 4y ago

Not true! I worked at what some would consider one of the top offices (Dropbox). They went remote and the polling was something like 70% support 30% oppose. There were some vocal supporters of in-office (mostly due to the perks like food) but they gave a generous stipend instead to satisfy most people.

tracker1 4y ago
I find I work better in an office myself... been remote for about 3 years now, and I've gotten used to it. I miss lunch with coworkers, etc... and some of the more spontaneous discussions don't happen nearly as much... Also, I like a relatively short commute (around 30m) long enough to clear the mind before/after work.
- frognumber 4y ago
  For me, work environment makes a huge difference. I work like crap in cubicle farms and typical corporate offices. I feel like I'm on display. I work best in a private office, with a door that closes, a window that looks out on nature, and a very large whiteboard. Ideally, I'd like my team members have similar ones. Home is in between. I can work much longer hours if I can: - do basic basic bodily functions (stretching, eating, drinking, scratching, a short power nap, etc.) - change work positions (e.g. lie down with a laptop) - make noise (phone calls, music, etc.) - have my papers and books spread out as I see fit ... and so on. I have never seen a tech firm where I was comfortable in the office, and it's especially hard in places like SFO/BOS/NYC/etc. where square feet cost so much. My past few jobs weren't with tech firms, and I really enjoyed working in proper offices.
- jrochkind1 4y ago
  Same. But I used to have a walking commute, which I also miss. Certainly I wouldn't miss a commute longer than 30 minutes. And I'd probably miss it less if it were in an office park somewhere, rather than a city I could walk to lunch at various places. But yeah, I have a remote job because that's the job I have that I'm well-suited for that was available. (And sure, ability to work from one 1 or 2 days a week or as needed would certainly be convenient regardless). But I don't actually prefer working remotely, and also think there are real losses to quality of collaborative work, as well as quality of life. I know this is heretical to say these days in these circles.