7 ms·

Trades are a great idea. ... I don't think I'd specifically recommend "Learn to drive a big rig" though. In addition to the industry itself being a real bad de

Trades are a great idea. ... I don't think I'd specifically recommend "Learn to drive a big rig" though. In addition to the industry itself being a real bad deal for vehicle operators (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/09/business/truck-driver-shortage.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/09/business/truck-driver-sho...), it's the segment of the transportation sector centered in the crosshairs of disruption-through-automation. The self-driving vehicle companies that laid off were, broadly speaking, the ones working on individual vehicles and taxi services, not the ones working on self-driving trucks. That sector is still going strong because the value proposition is simple and obvious (lives saved and money saved per mile).

Loughla 4y ago
Trades are an okay idea. People have this rosy picture of a skilled trades job, with high pay, great benefits, and security from a strong union. And while that can be true, it is certainly only a very small part of the picture. You can't just say, I'm going to be a plumber, and bam, you're a plumber. You could, conceivably do that with something like rough frame carpentry, but those aren't the high paid trades people talk about. Most trades have required education and/or apprenticeships that aren't paid that great. If you can make it through that, then the pay gets better. But we're talking years, literally years to get there. Then, once you're doing the skilled trade, you're working long (looooong) hours, long weeks, away from family (sometimes), in the heat and cold and rain. These are good jobs, but they're not magic make money jobs like people tend to frame them. They're hard, and your career will get cut shorter than it should by either straight up injury or problems of accrued physical debt from repetitive strain.
- jacquesm 4y ago
  Ask a plumber to show you their crawlsuit and describe the last month or so of their work and you being to appreciate their rates.
  - DwnVoteHoneyPot 4y ago
    I talked to 3 plumbers recently when I bought a partially built house. First guy was a "commercial" plumber working on new builds only. Second guy was a "home renovation" plumber. Both these 2 plumbers won't go near a clogged toilet. Third guy specialized on clogged pipes and home emergency repair.
    - 29083011397778 4y ago
      > Third guy specialized on clogged pipes and home emergency repair. And knows anyone calling him is likely over a barrel and willing to pay big money to make the problem go away. Odd hours, but a respectable hourly rate (assuming he has some skin in the game vis-a-vis owning the business).
  - type0 4y ago
    Plumbers have a terrible fate, more so if they have a special suit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teufz17PqoY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teufz17PqoY
    - jacquesm 4y ago
      Hehe, ok. Fantastic movie that one. Also quite depressing.
dghlsakjg 4y ago
Talk to a tradie who was around in 2008. Ask an older tradie how their body is doing. Ask a tradie how often clients don't pay their bills. Ask a tradie how many paid sick days they get. The trades are one way to make a living wage, but they definitely aren't an easy way to do it. There are some union jobs, but largely the trades require you to run your own business in one way or another. Even your average car mechanic employed by a garage has to provide their own tools at HUGE cost. I think a lot of people don't realize just how hard it is to be in the trades.
- kspacewalk2 4y ago
  "Just be an electrician! Look how well they're paid!" Sure, be an electrician. But first try working an 8-hour day with your arms above shoulder level half the time.
  - hd95489 4y ago
    Yeah it’s not the 8 hour days that you are thinking of. Blue collar workers work terrible hours and have mostly been robbed of holidays and weekends
  - screwturner68 4y ago
    Show me a sparkie that only works an 8 hour day, it's 12 hours standing on cold concrete.
- yamtaddle 4y ago
  The ones who make Real Money in the trades are mostly in sales & management before their career's too far along (either very high-up in some larger firm, or running their own thing with employees). Their knees tend to be OK. [EDIT] Actually, that kinda goes for tech workers who aren't in the top part of the trimodal comp graph, too. You either move into management or start your own thing, if you want Real Money (else you'll see a bad mid-career plateau).
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
Ancalagon 4y ago
TuSimple (automated truck driving) laid off 25%... [1] [1] https://techcrunch.com/2022/12/21/self-driving-truck-company-tusimple-to-lay-off-25-of-workforce/ https://techcrunch.com/2022/12/21/self-driving-truck-company...
khmii 4y ago
I have actually looked at a CDL out of curiosity. I can't imagine not getting a CDL right now because of automation. I think this is a much harder problem than it seems at the edges, especially in poor winter conditions. Most people would get sick of trucking before they are automated to the unemployment line. The bigger issue really is that trucking is a bad deal. Super dangerous job that doesn't pay much of anything for the hours worked while your health is basically destroyed from sitting. Stories from new big rig drivers are pretty terrifying. It sounds like the first year is spent hoping everyday that you don't kill someone as you learn to handle this 80,000lb monstrosity.

Loughla 4y ago

Trades are an okay idea. People have this rosy picture of a skilled trades job, with high pay, great benefits, and security from a strong union. And while that can be true, it is certainly only a very small part of the picture. You can't just say, I'm going to be a plumber, and bam, you're a plumber. You could, conceivably do that with something like rough frame carpentry, but those aren't the high paid trades people talk about. Most trades have required education and/or apprenticeships that aren't paid that great. If you can make it through that, then the pay gets better. But we're talking years, literally years to get there. Then, once you're doing the skilled trade, you're working long (looooong) hours, long weeks, away from family (sometimes), in the heat and cold and rain. These are good jobs, but they're not magic make money jobs like people tend to frame them. They're hard, and your career will get cut shorter than it should by either straight up injury or problems of accrued physical debt from repetitive strain.

jacquesm 4y ago
Ask a plumber to show you their crawlsuit and describe the last month or so of their work and you being to appreciate their rates.
- DwnVoteHoneyPot 4y ago
  I talked to 3 plumbers recently when I bought a partially built house. First guy was a "commercial" plumber working on new builds only. Second guy was a "home renovation" plumber. Both these 2 plumbers won't go near a clogged toilet. Third guy specialized on clogged pipes and home emergency repair.
  - 29083011397778 4y ago
    > Third guy specialized on clogged pipes and home emergency repair. And knows anyone calling him is likely over a barrel and willing to pay big money to make the problem go away. Odd hours, but a respectable hourly rate (assuming he has some skin in the game vis-a-vis owning the business).
- type0 4y ago
  Plumbers have a terrible fate, more so if they have a special suit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teufz17PqoY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teufz17PqoY
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    Hehe, ok. Fantastic movie that one. Also quite depressing.

dghlsakjg 4y ago

Talk to a tradie who was around in 2008. Ask an older tradie how their body is doing. Ask a tradie how often clients don't pay their bills. Ask a tradie how many paid sick days they get. The trades are one way to make a living wage, but they definitely aren't an easy way to do it. There are some union jobs, but largely the trades require you to run your own business in one way or another. Even your average car mechanic employed by a garage has to provide their own tools at HUGE cost. I think a lot of people don't realize just how hard it is to be in the trades.

kspacewalk2 4y ago
"Just be an electrician! Look how well they're paid!" Sure, be an electrician. But first try working an 8-hour day with your arms above shoulder level half the time.
- hd95489 4y ago
  Yeah it’s not the 8 hour days that you are thinking of. Blue collar workers work terrible hours and have mostly been robbed of holidays and weekends
- screwturner68 4y ago
  Show me a sparkie that only works an 8 hour day, it's 12 hours standing on cold concrete.
yamtaddle 4y ago
The ones who make Real Money in the trades are mostly in sales & management before their career's too far along (either very high-up in some larger firm, or running their own thing with employees). Their knees tend to be OK. [EDIT] Actually, that kinda goes for tech workers who aren't in the top part of the trimodal comp graph, too. You either move into management or start your own thing, if you want Real Money (else you'll see a bad mid-career plateau).
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

Ancalagon 4y ago

TuSimple (automated truck driving) laid off 25%... [1] [1] https://techcrunch.com/2022/12/21/self-driving-truck-company-tusimple-to-lay-off-25-of-workforce/ https://techcrunch.com/2022/12/21/self-driving-truck-company...

khmii 4y ago

I have actually looked at a CDL out of curiosity. I can't imagine not getting a CDL right now because of automation. I think this is a much harder problem than it seems at the edges, especially in poor winter conditions. Most people would get sick of trucking before they are automated to the unemployment line. The bigger issue really is that trucking is a bad deal. Super dangerous job that doesn't pay much of anything for the hours worked while your health is basically destroyed from sitting. Stories from new big rig drivers are pretty terrifying. It sounds like the first year is spent hoping everyday that you don't kill someone as you learn to handle this 80,000lb monstrosity.