5 ms·

I think he's saying that he still holds the record if we adjust for inflation

padobson 4y ago
Not sure how deep you intended this joke to go, but the NBA had 23 franchises in 1980 [0] that scored 108 points per game[1]. Now there are 30 franchises scoring 114 points per game. If you look at the points per game stats, scoring dipped as the number of teams expanded, but rule changes, officiating changes and increases in talent over time led to more points being scored. So a 1980 point was almost certainly worth more than a 2022 point. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980%E2%80%9381_NBA_season https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980%E2%80%9381_NBA_season [1]https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats_per_game.html https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats_per_g... edits: typos
- duringmath 4y ago
  Stuff like the hand checking rule and better floor spacing as a result of the rise in prominence of the 3 point shot come to mind
  - ydnaclementine 4y ago
    Nevermind that the 3pointer was introduced 10 years after Kareem's rookie season. He has a single 3 pointer made in his career
    - wintogreen74 4y ago
      pretty crazy when you compare it to many similar sized players who have come after him, making a living beyond the three point line!
- mywittyname 4y ago
  I think most people accept that sports change over time and it's difficult to compare historical players with current ones. Ignoring rule changes, there's the fact that athletes can collect so much data about their performance and use that information to improve in ways that just weren't available 30-50 years ago. Not to mention all of the scientific breakthroughs society has achieved in our understanding of the human body, nutrition, pharmacology, etc. An athlete born in 2020 has a huge advantage over one born in 1920.
  - mlyle 4y ago
    > An athlete born in 2020 has a huge advantage over one born in 1920. A big disadvantage, though, too: he has to play against players with the same advantages.
    - deanCommie 4y ago
      So true! Look at clips of Wayne Gretzky from the 1980's, which is also when he set all-time records that have not yet been surpassed (and people still believe never will, though Ovechkin has a chance at the goals record) What's incredible isn't what he's doing, it's what everyone else around him is NOT doing. * He's skating fast but not that fast (compared to modern skaters) * His shot is accurate but he's not a sniper. Many shots never leave the ice * But the defenders have absolutely no checking ability * And the goalies are upright! The butterfly style hasn't been popularized yet! They're just awkard sieve slowly shuffling around in net.
- mode80 4y ago
  I love you HN. Never change.
- danem 4y ago
  In the 20 seasons Lebron has been in the NBA the average points scored by a team per game has been 103, while in KAJ's first 20 seasons the average was 109. The early 2000's were incredibly slow compared to the 70's and 80's[0]. https://e7n9s5t9.stackpathcdn.com/articles/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Pace-by-season-1.png https://e7n9s5t9.stackpathcdn.com/articles/wp-content/upload...
  - padobson 4y ago
    Yes, absolutely correct. I'd say the Showtime Lakers are the poster child for fast pace in the 80s. This is why I included the number of teams. PPG has fluctuated across eras, but total points has gone up over time.[0] Talent dilution in the expansion from 23 to 30 teams undoubtedly had an effect on pace in the late 90s/2000s. There's probably a good formula for determining the value of a point across eras, but I'm not going to waste too many brain cells on it. [0]https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats_totals.html https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats_total...
dieselgate 4y ago
Well the NBA didn't create the 3 point line until 1979 which was basically half way into Abdul-Jabbar's career - so it kind of accurate to say "point inflation" in a sense Edit: statbook link https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/abdulka01.html https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/abdulka01.htm...
didgetmaster 4y ago
It's always hard to do a side-by-side comparison between two athletes that did not play during the same era. Rules change, competition is different, and playing conditions can also be different. In golf, today's players have much different equipment than in earlier times but the lengths of courses has increased. In baseball, pitching is not the same. Just like with Wilt Chamberlain's 100 point game; who knows if any of the current superstars could match it if the conditions for that game could be duplicated somehow. Any discussion of GOAT will bring a lot of disagreement because none of the sports are static.
subsubzero 4y ago
This stuff is really hard to gauge. On one hand the NBA officiating rules have changed to where "defense" like what was seen in 70's through early 2000's is not happening in this league. Like it or not the league has switched from a hard nose interior game(see lots of dunking and post moves) to one that is played from distance ala 3 pointers (thanks mid-2010's Warriors!). So you have that data point, the other one to focus on is health, given the stuff above - players careers, or good players will see a longer career due to less wear on their bodies from tough physical defense they face. They also have really good medical care and recovery systems, I bet KAJ wish he had hyperbaric chambers to help him recover! But.. every other player also has these tools so its a wash. I think the big game changer is the defense rules change, and then to a lessor factor couple that with players having better access to health and recovery systems I definitely see a future player breaking Lebron's scoring record.
- thelock85 4y ago
  The defensive changes are a bit over-stated in my opinion. Sure there is no hand checking, arm barring or really hard fouls (that are not flagrant) but there is zone defense. So when you get by your defender, there can easily be 2-3 guys already waiting for you. Whereas before, there were 2-3 guys rotating over to try to meet you at the rim. Schematically it seems that scoring is as easy/hard as it ever was even if the tactics have evolved.

Not sure how deep you intended this joke to go, but the NBA had 23 franchises in 1980 [0] that scored 108 points per game[1]. Now there are 30 franchises scoring 114 points per game. If you look at the points per game stats, scoring dipped as the number of teams expanded, but rule changes, officiating changes and increases in talent over time led to more points being scored. So a 1980 point was almost certainly worth more than a 2022 point. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980%E2%80%9381_NBA_season https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980%E2%80%9381_NBA_season [1]https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats_per_game.html https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats_per_g... edits: typos

duringmath 4y ago
Stuff like the hand checking rule and better floor spacing as a result of the rise in prominence of the 3 point shot come to mind
- ydnaclementine 4y ago
  Nevermind that the 3pointer was introduced 10 years after Kareem's rookie season. He has a single 3 pointer made in his career
  - wintogreen74 4y ago
    pretty crazy when you compare it to many similar sized players who have come after him, making a living beyond the three point line!
mywittyname 4y ago
I think most people accept that sports change over time and it's difficult to compare historical players with current ones. Ignoring rule changes, there's the fact that athletes can collect so much data about their performance and use that information to improve in ways that just weren't available 30-50 years ago. Not to mention all of the scientific breakthroughs society has achieved in our understanding of the human body, nutrition, pharmacology, etc. An athlete born in 2020 has a huge advantage over one born in 1920.
- mlyle 4y ago
  > An athlete born in 2020 has a huge advantage over one born in 1920. A big disadvantage, though, too: he has to play against players with the same advantages.
  - deanCommie 4y ago
    So true! Look at clips of Wayne Gretzky from the 1980's, which is also when he set all-time records that have not yet been surpassed (and people still believe never will, though Ovechkin has a chance at the goals record) What's incredible isn't what he's doing, it's what everyone else around him is NOT doing. * He's skating fast but not that fast (compared to modern skaters) * His shot is accurate but he's not a sniper. Many shots never leave the ice * But the defenders have absolutely no checking ability * And the goalies are upright! The butterfly style hasn't been popularized yet! They're just awkard sieve slowly shuffling around in net.
mode80 4y ago
I love you HN. Never change.
danem 4y ago
In the 20 seasons Lebron has been in the NBA the average points scored by a team per game has been 103, while in KAJ's first 20 seasons the average was 109. The early 2000's were incredibly slow compared to the 70's and 80's[0]. https://e7n9s5t9.stackpathcdn.com/articles/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Pace-by-season-1.png https://e7n9s5t9.stackpathcdn.com/articles/wp-content/upload...
- padobson 4y ago
  Yes, absolutely correct. I'd say the Showtime Lakers are the poster child for fast pace in the 80s. This is why I included the number of teams. PPG has fluctuated across eras, but total points has gone up over time.[0] Talent dilution in the expansion from 23 to 30 teams undoubtedly had an effect on pace in the late 90s/2000s. There's probably a good formula for determining the value of a point across eras, but I'm not going to waste too many brain cells on it. [0]https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats_totals.html https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats_total...

dieselgate 4y ago

Well the NBA didn't create the 3 point line until 1979 which was basically half way into Abdul-Jabbar's career - so it kind of accurate to say "point inflation" in a sense Edit: statbook link https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/abdulka01.html https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/abdulka01.htm...

didgetmaster 4y ago

It's always hard to do a side-by-side comparison between two athletes that did not play during the same era. Rules change, competition is different, and playing conditions can also be different. In golf, today's players have much different equipment than in earlier times but the lengths of courses has increased. In baseball, pitching is not the same. Just like with Wilt Chamberlain's 100 point game; who knows if any of the current superstars could match it if the conditions for that game could be duplicated somehow. Any discussion of GOAT will bring a lot of disagreement because none of the sports are static.

subsubzero 4y ago

This stuff is really hard to gauge. On one hand the NBA officiating rules have changed to where "defense" like what was seen in 70's through early 2000's is not happening in this league. Like it or not the league has switched from a hard nose interior game(see lots of dunking and post moves) to one that is played from distance ala 3 pointers (thanks mid-2010's Warriors!). So you have that data point, the other one to focus on is health, given the stuff above - players careers, or good players will see a longer career due to less wear on their bodies from tough physical defense they face. They also have really good medical care and recovery systems, I bet KAJ wish he had hyperbaric chambers to help him recover! But.. every other player also has these tools so its a wash. I think the big game changer is the defense rules change, and then to a lessor factor couple that with players having better access to health and recovery systems I definitely see a future player breaking Lebron's scoring record.

thelock85 4y ago
The defensive changes are a bit over-stated in my opinion. Sure there is no hand checking, arm barring or really hard fouls (that are not flagrant) but there is zone defense. So when you get by your defender, there can easily be 2-3 guys already waiting for you. Whereas before, there were 2-3 guys rotating over to try to meet you at the rim. Schematically it seems that scoring is as easy/hard as it ever was even if the tactics have evolved.