5 ms·

which says a lot if the economy is disconnected from the prosperity and economic outlook of the majority of people. In such a case, a "good economy" is just a s

which says a lot if the economy is disconnected from the prosperity and economic outlook of the majority of people. In such a case, a "good economy" is just a synonym for "elite are still doing well."

A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
This, I think, seems to be the important thing that seems glossed over in news articles. At certain income, the economy is doing great. But that is within the group that, historically, has always done well. When you have enough money, a lot of pain can be made largely removed. Now, it is only anecdata. I am in IL. My household is above average in terms of income for US and my state. We are struggling ( not as much as so many other Americans, but I can't say I am comfortable say.. buying a new car or remodeling kitchen or even taking a vacation ) and it is not like we are throwing money at random indulgences and we did not even start school for our kid yet. By all metrics I should be in a comfortable enough position ( and I guess I am by comparison ), but to me outlook is choppy. And it is not just the boom/bust cycle. I am talking real systemic issues that will take both massive tax hikes and services reductions, but that would not be a popular message to take so no one talks about it. I remember working sub $20k job. I remember being bumped to $30k ( ~US median? ) and I can't even begin to imagine anyone having to live on that today. In short, I agree.
- alldayeveryday 4y ago
  To your point about services reduction, I don't agree. I think more of a re-allocation of where capitol is going is the cure. We should increase or create new social programs that incentivize native births, home ownership, making it possible for most households to have just one person in the workforce, etc - and reduce the money that goes towards foreign wars, foreign agitation, welfare for nations across the world, etc. And I agree, tax hikes but targeted at the financial system which makes money in parasitic ways. In short, the economy needs to be optimized to the benefit of the lower and middle classes, the working class, and no longer to the 1%. This all probably requires heavy nationalization of banking and major industry. I dont see this as an evil and mistrust those that tell me to fear putting the power back in the hands of the people and away from the elite.
  - A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
    << And I agree, tax hikes but targeted at the financial system which makes money in parasitic ways. In short, the economy needs to be optimized to the benefit of the lower and middle classes, the working class, and no longer to the 1%. This all probably requires heavy nationalization of banking and major industry. I dont see this as an evil and mistrust those that tell me to fear putting the power back in the hands of the people and away from the elite. I disagree. The only way to even begin thinking about selling it to the public, which happens to include moneyed interests is 'shared sacrifice' ( similar to how a war effort would be sold ). In pure mathematical terms, we really should be doing both already. We don't because things did not get bad enough yet, but once it starts, it will be a little hard to stop. Shock therapy is necessary to get things under control. And the longer we wait pretending it can be 'managed', the worse it will be later on. << I think more of a re-allocation of where capitol is going is the cure. From where to where? I don't automatically disagree, but 'entitlements'(depending on how you define them ) are somewhat protected from touching and 'defense' is even harder. Re-allocation is not going to happen, because even current allocation was a result of heavy compromises. I disagree based on the information provided so far. If you have math to back up either point, please share. Right now, we are still running US on continuing resolutions suggesting that balanced budget now is just not possible. Something is wrong and it needs to be corrected before it gets much worse.
    - alldayeveryday 4y ago
      > … is shared sacrifice similar to how a war effort is sold. You actually posed a solution here not a disproof. Yes all this requires selling changes to the public and under a social message. One doesn’t need math to know this, it is intuitively true. > from where to where I already answered this. > re-allocation is not going to happen because even the current allocation was a result of heavy compromise. So anything that requires compromise cannot be undone? I’m not tracking your logic here. I think you are looking for more evidence to backup my suggestion. See 1930s Germany as example where this model was followed and resulted in one of the greatest economic turnarounds of all time. > inb4 muh nazis and Holocaust Doesn’t disprove the economic turnaround that transpired.
noelsusman 4y ago
The bottom 50% have collectively more than doubled their net worth in the last 3 years[1], and their wages have outpaced inflation even at its currently high level[2]. [1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/WFRBLB50107 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/WFRBLB50107 [2] https://www.atlantafed.org/chcs/wage-growth-tracker https://www.atlantafed.org/chcs/wage-growth-tracker
- alldayeveryday 4y ago
  Inflation began to spike in the U.S. in April of 2021, when it hit 4.2%. Inflation continued to climb, hitting 7% year-over-year by December 2021. Sadly, 2022 didn’t see any slowdown in inflation as the rate peaked at 9.1% in June. Starting in July, inflation began to fall slightly, though it still sat at 7.7% in November. Your atlantafed link shows unweighted wage increase peaking at 6.7% in August 2022. In what way did wages outpace inflation?
  - noelsusman 4y ago
    Click on the button to separate by wage level. Wage growth for the bottom 50% has significantly outpaced wage growth for the top 50%. Their wages grew at around 7.3% over the last 12 months, which outpaces inflation. It may have been a bit under when inflation was at its peak, so it's possible they just came out even with inflation overall, which is still pretty good when you're doubling your net worth at the same time.
    - alldayeveryday 4y ago
      Wages peaked at 7.3%, not averaged that over the 12 month period.

A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago

This, I think, seems to be the important thing that seems glossed over in news articles. At certain income, the economy is doing great. But that is within the group that, historically, has always done well. When you have enough money, a lot of pain can be made largely removed. Now, it is only anecdata. I am in IL. My household is above average in terms of income for US and my state. We are struggling ( not as much as so many other Americans, but I can't say I am comfortable say.. buying a new car or remodeling kitchen or even taking a vacation ) and it is not like we are throwing money at random indulgences and we did not even start school for our kid yet. By all metrics I should be in a comfortable enough position ( and I guess I am by comparison ), but to me outlook is choppy. And it is not just the boom/bust cycle. I am talking real systemic issues that will take both massive tax hikes and services reductions, but that would not be a popular message to take so no one talks about it. I remember working sub $20k job. I remember being bumped to $30k ( ~US median? ) and I can't even begin to imagine anyone having to live on that today. In short, I agree.

alldayeveryday 4y ago
To your point about services reduction, I don't agree. I think more of a re-allocation of where capitol is going is the cure. We should increase or create new social programs that incentivize native births, home ownership, making it possible for most households to have just one person in the workforce, etc - and reduce the money that goes towards foreign wars, foreign agitation, welfare for nations across the world, etc. And I agree, tax hikes but targeted at the financial system which makes money in parasitic ways. In short, the economy needs to be optimized to the benefit of the lower and middle classes, the working class, and no longer to the 1%. This all probably requires heavy nationalization of banking and major industry. I dont see this as an evil and mistrust those that tell me to fear putting the power back in the hands of the people and away from the elite.
- A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
  << And I agree, tax hikes but targeted at the financial system which makes money in parasitic ways. In short, the economy needs to be optimized to the benefit of the lower and middle classes, the working class, and no longer to the 1%. This all probably requires heavy nationalization of banking and major industry. I dont see this as an evil and mistrust those that tell me to fear putting the power back in the hands of the people and away from the elite. I disagree. The only way to even begin thinking about selling it to the public, which happens to include moneyed interests is 'shared sacrifice' ( similar to how a war effort would be sold ). In pure mathematical terms, we really should be doing both already. We don't because things did not get bad enough yet, but once it starts, it will be a little hard to stop. Shock therapy is necessary to get things under control. And the longer we wait pretending it can be 'managed', the worse it will be later on. << I think more of a re-allocation of where capitol is going is the cure. From where to where? I don't automatically disagree, but 'entitlements'(depending on how you define them ) are somewhat protected from touching and 'defense' is even harder. Re-allocation is not going to happen, because even current allocation was a result of heavy compromises. I disagree based on the information provided so far. If you have math to back up either point, please share. Right now, we are still running US on continuing resolutions suggesting that balanced budget now is just not possible. Something is wrong and it needs to be corrected before it gets much worse.
  - alldayeveryday 4y ago
    > … is shared sacrifice similar to how a war effort is sold. You actually posed a solution here not a disproof. Yes all this requires selling changes to the public and under a social message. One doesn’t need math to know this, it is intuitively true. > from where to where I already answered this. > re-allocation is not going to happen because even the current allocation was a result of heavy compromise. So anything that requires compromise cannot be undone? I’m not tracking your logic here. I think you are looking for more evidence to backup my suggestion. See 1930s Germany as example where this model was followed and resulted in one of the greatest economic turnarounds of all time. > inb4 muh nazis and Holocaust Doesn’t disprove the economic turnaround that transpired.

noelsusman 4y ago

The bottom 50% have collectively more than doubled their net worth in the last 3 years[1], and their wages have outpaced inflation even at its currently high level[2]. [1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/WFRBLB50107 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/WFRBLB50107 [2] https://www.atlantafed.org/chcs/wage-growth-tracker https://www.atlantafed.org/chcs/wage-growth-tracker

alldayeveryday 4y ago
Inflation began to spike in the U.S. in April of 2021, when it hit 4.2%. Inflation continued to climb, hitting 7% year-over-year by December 2021. Sadly, 2022 didn’t see any slowdown in inflation as the rate peaked at 9.1% in June. Starting in July, inflation began to fall slightly, though it still sat at 7.7% in November. Your atlantafed link shows unweighted wage increase peaking at 6.7% in August 2022. In what way did wages outpace inflation?
- noelsusman 4y ago
  Click on the button to separate by wage level. Wage growth for the bottom 50% has significantly outpaced wage growth for the top 50%. Their wages grew at around 7.3% over the last 12 months, which outpaces inflation. It may have been a bit under when inflation was at its peak, so it's possible they just came out even with inflation overall, which is still pretty good when you're doubling your net worth at the same time.
  - alldayeveryday 4y ago
    Wages peaked at 7.3%, not averaged that over the 12 month period.