6 ms·

The economy is humming along just fine despite all of that.

mberning 4y ago
Many people feel fine right up until the point they get diagnosed with a terminal illness. The point being, this would be like going to the doctor and having high blood pressure, high cholesterol, high blood sugar, etc. etc. The patient can be up, walking around, feeling OK, but in reality they are headed for a nightmare.
- noelsusman 4y ago
  So we agree we're not in an economic downturn then.
- mplewis 4y ago
  The economy is not a human body.
  - charcircuit 4y ago
    It's an analogy
    - zopa 4y ago
      A bad one. What's the insight here? If a body were a nation-state, it'd be a totalitarian hellscape where life is cheap, individuals exist only to support the collective and some populations are invaders to be exterminated.
      - utrack 4y ago
        I'd call it a complex system. It's entirely possible to have a component in a system that may disrupt the whole system in a whole new, unpredictable way. Just like some sort of asymptomatic tumor which breaks the whole body once it metastasizes.
        zopa 4y ago
        Yes, and as I don’t want metaphorical chemotherapy for the country I’d prefer we chose a different metaphor. An analogy shouldn’t just be some strained parallels, it should lead us in useful and not destructive directions.
        utrack 4y ago
        Oh, fair enough. Something surgical would be best :)
    - hirako2000 4y ago
      What is the relation between people's inability to notice having a brewing disease and business predicting turmoil in the future hence going for the diet?
  - edgyquant 4y ago
    Maybe not a human body; but it is /a/ body and it is true that those things are not a good condition to have for prolonged periods of time.
alldayeveryday 4y ago
which says a lot if the economy is disconnected from the prosperity and economic outlook of the majority of people. In such a case, a "good economy" is just a synonym for "elite are still doing well."
- A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
  This, I think, seems to be the important thing that seems glossed over in news articles. At certain income, the economy is doing great. But that is within the group that, historically, has always done well. When you have enough money, a lot of pain can be made largely removed. Now, it is only anecdata. I am in IL. My household is above average in terms of income for US and my state. We are struggling ( not as much as so many other Americans, but I can't say I am comfortable say.. buying a new car or remodeling kitchen or even taking a vacation ) and it is not like we are throwing money at random indulgences and we did not even start school for our kid yet. By all metrics I should be in a comfortable enough position ( and I guess I am by comparison ), but to me outlook is choppy. And it is not just the boom/bust cycle. I am talking real systemic issues that will take both massive tax hikes and services reductions, but that would not be a popular message to take so no one talks about it. I remember working sub $20k job. I remember being bumped to $30k ( ~US median? ) and I can't even begin to imagine anyone having to live on that today. In short, I agree.
  - alldayeveryday 4y ago
    To your point about services reduction, I don't agree. I think more of a re-allocation of where capitol is going is the cure. We should increase or create new social programs that incentivize native births, home ownership, making it possible for most households to have just one person in the workforce, etc - and reduce the money that goes towards foreign wars, foreign agitation, welfare for nations across the world, etc. And I agree, tax hikes but targeted at the financial system which makes money in parasitic ways. In short, the economy needs to be optimized to the benefit of the lower and middle classes, the working class, and no longer to the 1%. This all probably requires heavy nationalization of banking and major industry. I dont see this as an evil and mistrust those that tell me to fear putting the power back in the hands of the people and away from the elite.
rwalle 4y ago
Sure, your subjective feeling is more accurate and convincing than concrete numbers.
- SantalBlush 4y ago
  You should actually look at the concrete numbers. GDP and the unemployment rate are the two biggest economic indicators used in determining a recession, and these concrete numbers tell you that you're wrong.
- noelsusman 4y ago
  It's the "we're in a downturn" crowd that is relying on vibes and feelings. GDP is growing. Unemployment is the lowest it's been in over 50 years. Real wages are growing for the bottom 50% of earners despite high inflation.

Many people feel fine right up until the point they get diagnosed with a terminal illness. The point being, this would be like going to the doctor and having high blood pressure, high cholesterol, high blood sugar, etc. etc. The patient can be up, walking around, feeling OK, but in reality they are headed for a nightmare.

noelsusman 4y ago
So we agree we're not in an economic downturn then.
mplewis 4y ago
The economy is not a human body.
- charcircuit 4y ago
  It's an analogy
  - zopa 4y ago
    A bad one. What's the insight here? If a body were a nation-state, it'd be a totalitarian hellscape where life is cheap, individuals exist only to support the collective and some populations are invaders to be exterminated.
    - utrack 4y ago
      I'd call it a complex system. It's entirely possible to have a component in a system that may disrupt the whole system in a whole new, unpredictable way. Just like some sort of asymptomatic tumor which breaks the whole body once it metastasizes.
      - zopa 4y ago
        Yes, and as I don’t want metaphorical chemotherapy for the country I’d prefer we chose a different metaphor. An analogy shouldn’t just be some strained parallels, it should lead us in useful and not destructive directions.
        utrack 4y ago
        Oh, fair enough. Something surgical would be best :)
  - hirako2000 4y ago
    What is the relation between people's inability to notice having a brewing disease and business predicting turmoil in the future hence going for the diet?
- edgyquant 4y ago
  Maybe not a human body; but it is /a/ body and it is true that those things are not a good condition to have for prolonged periods of time.

alldayeveryday 4y ago

which says a lot if the economy is disconnected from the prosperity and economic outlook of the majority of people. In such a case, a "good economy" is just a synonym for "elite are still doing well."

A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
This, I think, seems to be the important thing that seems glossed over in news articles. At certain income, the economy is doing great. But that is within the group that, historically, has always done well. When you have enough money, a lot of pain can be made largely removed. Now, it is only anecdata. I am in IL. My household is above average in terms of income for US and my state. We are struggling ( not as much as so many other Americans, but I can't say I am comfortable say.. buying a new car or remodeling kitchen or even taking a vacation ) and it is not like we are throwing money at random indulgences and we did not even start school for our kid yet. By all metrics I should be in a comfortable enough position ( and I guess I am by comparison ), but to me outlook is choppy. And it is not just the boom/bust cycle. I am talking real systemic issues that will take both massive tax hikes and services reductions, but that would not be a popular message to take so no one talks about it. I remember working sub $20k job. I remember being bumped to $30k ( ~US median? ) and I can't even begin to imagine anyone having to live on that today. In short, I agree.
- alldayeveryday 4y ago
  To your point about services reduction, I don't agree. I think more of a re-allocation of where capitol is going is the cure. We should increase or create new social programs that incentivize native births, home ownership, making it possible for most households to have just one person in the workforce, etc - and reduce the money that goes towards foreign wars, foreign agitation, welfare for nations across the world, etc. And I agree, tax hikes but targeted at the financial system which makes money in parasitic ways. In short, the economy needs to be optimized to the benefit of the lower and middle classes, the working class, and no longer to the 1%. This all probably requires heavy nationalization of banking and major industry. I dont see this as an evil and mistrust those that tell me to fear putting the power back in the hands of the people and away from the elite.

rwalle 4y ago

Sure, your subjective feeling is more accurate and convincing than concrete numbers.

SantalBlush 4y ago
You should actually look at the concrete numbers. GDP and the unemployment rate are the two biggest economic indicators used in determining a recession, and these concrete numbers tell you that you're wrong.
noelsusman 4y ago
It's the "we're in a downturn" crowd that is relying on vibes and feelings. GDP is growing. Unemployment is the lowest it's been in over 50 years. Real wages are growing for the bottom 50% of earners despite high inflation.