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The most interesting twist to come out of the rise of DEI is the now open discrimination against Asians, and the rising open casting of Jews as the real enemy o

The most interesting twist to come out of the rise of DEI is the now open discrimination against Asians, and the rising open casting of Jews as the real enemy of African Americans. Although Jews get blamed for everything else so maybe it's not so much of a surprise. A year or so ago when there was a large number of cases of Asians being attacked in the streets by African Americans; the DEI director where I worked posted on slack in response to posts by concerned Asian coworkers that it was because of white supremacy and we mustn't let white supremacists drive us apart. It was very much whites are the bad guys and just ignore whatever is really happening. What makes it worse is DEI leaders are essentially given unlimited power. They can say anything and if you say anything to contradict them you are a racist and your career is destroyed. Article reminds me of this: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1608188826291167242/photo/1 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1608188826291167242/phot...

bunbunbun 4y ago
Washington post had a nice economic and historical analysis of what you are talking about a few years ago: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/11/29/the-real-reason-americans-stopped-spitting-on-asian-americans-and-started-praising-them/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/11/29/the-r... It’s not exhaustive but gives some touchstones for further reading
- throwawayacc6 4y ago
  https://archive.is/62ktx https://archive.is/62ktx
bwing 4y ago
There's no logical endpoint for "disparate group outcomes prove a problem that must be fixed" outside of discrimination against Asians and Jews. (It's an ineffective racist, white supremacist society that allows immigrant Asians and their descendants to outscore native whites on every metric of success used to prove the racism and white supremacy.)
faeriechangling 4y ago
Asians have been facing discrimination in work and schools for over a century. DEI is conceptually much younger. It’s just more yellow peril bullshit wrapped up in a veneer of morality pushed by career racists and bigots.
- testfoobar 4y ago
  I've heard it quite explicitly. Acquaintances with diversity/blm/love is love/lgbt yard signs, anti-racist t-shirts, the whole yards will unprompted make blindingly racist statements about Chinese and Indians. E.g. Academic ambition is all "those people" care about...Asians are hoarding all the "best spots" in universities/jobs. "They" must hate their kids. Their kids must be all so unhappy and miserable. If you present a neutral, non-judgmental, position, it has been surprising me to how so many people will share all their racist views.
snowpid 4y ago
I am repeatedly surprised that in Germany some vocal antisemitics are black. (Not so many but everything above 0 is just surprising)
- mrguyorama 4y ago
  Man, it's almost like black people are people too and susceptible to the same faults as those with a lighter complexion, and being part of an oppressed class does not grant you immunity to being an oppressor
  - snowpid 4y ago
    The example I have in mind arent in an oppressed class because they have money but are very likely victims of rassism. Nor are black people are oppressors because of lack of numbers in that particular case. These people are antisemitics though they experience very similar to what Jews feel in Germany today.
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- bwing 4y ago
  If anything, it reflects a greater degree of logical rigor: 1) It's commonly taken as a simple fact that overrepresentation of white people among e.g. the top hedge fund managers is evidence of society being structured in those people's favor 2) Jews are way more overrepresented among top hedge fund managers than non-Jewish whites 3) ... Obviously the missing piece here is that (taken as a whole; obviously "Jews" comprises many different groups) Jewish people, on average, are culturally and genetically predisposed to success in intellectual fields. However, if you notice this but grow up in a climate where cultural and genetic reasons for group success are verboten, the nefarious explanations are the ones left.
- MisterTea 4y ago
  I am continually surprised that there are people who are surprised that black and brown people can participate in racism.
skippyboxedhero 4y ago
Historical racism is largely interpreted today as hate directed towards minority groups. Very roughly: people were racist because they hated X or Y, that was some defect in their personality, some individual reason, mental illness, etc. But it was also a function of group dynamics and attempting to preserve cohesion (perhaps more commonly, I think actively hating people you don't know has always been regarded as odd). Outsiders were discriminated against in order to maintain the values of the group (ignoring for a second whether these values were good or bad). And this kind of collective thinking is something that is more typical of the left. So you are seeing more and more of this reverse discrimination. And will continue to do so because this instinct towards group cohesion is overwhelming. You also see this outside the US with left-wing nationalist groups. I think there a tacit assumption today that left-wing and nationalism cannot go together. But nationalism has often been a key source of group cohesion for left-wing movements, and that has (unfortunately) often been defined exclusively. To say this another way: this has to end up with more discrimination. Everything that you do as an adult today is set against your record of "privilege". Why do people pretend to be poor? Why do people pretend to be a different race? And the people doing this are apparently privileged ones? It makes no sense.
- prox 4y ago
  I have been going over the article and the comments a couple of times now. And it makes no sense to me at all. So with some distance from this subject, it’s seems by reading the comments to be a very polarized issue with lots of emotional reactivity attached to it (and calling out the “other side”) I have no idea what DEI is (not the acronym, the movement behind it) and what it’s cultural setting is, and if it is different from other systems or movements that promote equality. I would love to see a neutral toned third party observer insight into the mechanics of this topic.
  - crackercrews 4y ago
    Where are you based that you aren't familiar with the DEI movement? What do you do? I mean no offense and am just curious. > if it is different from other systems or movements that promote equality. DEI promotes equity, not equality. As Kamala Harris said, equity means "we all end up at the same place". It is a pipe dream that people will achieve equity in all regards. This mindset is applied unevenly to areas where DEI proponents want to hold back the high achievers. There is no push for height equity in the NBA.
distantaidenn 4y ago
I hate to see this rhetoric on HN. I considered this one of the last bastions of rational, open, and unbiased discourse. I suppose "Eternal September" comes for all. As a member of the Black and Asian community (and others), first I'd like to say. What? Since when did Black people (en masse) begin assigning any manner of blame to the Jewish community as the "real enemies?" Aside from a one particular prominent rap artist and one very fringe religious group, no one I know or any of the Black online communities I frequent have ever said such. If there was a newsletter, I sure as hell didn't get it. Regarding the Black on Asian violence we saw in the US. It was and is a damned shame. Again, as a member of those communities, it hurts. However, I know I walk the fine line of whataboutism here, but I have to make it known. The increase in Asian hate was not led by Black Americans (but the reporting of it sure as hell made it look that way). I'll leave it as an exercise to the reader to determine which group was the number one culprit of such vile acts -- from simple assault to mass murder. Regardless, no matter the culprit, any act of violence based on race is absolutely and utterly reprehensible. We don't need a designated "bad guy" in order to address these horrible events. We all need to do better. [Edit] I seemed to have ruffled some feathers here.
- skippyboxedhero 4y ago
  > We don't need a designated "bad guy" in order to address these horrible events. We all need to do better. Also: > I'll leave it as an exercise to the reader to determine which group was the number one culprit of such vile acts I think everyone hates to see this on HN. Implying that your "and we know which race is responsible" is unbiased is...something else.
  - distantaidenn 4y ago
    That's my point. I'm not pointing fingers. When these stories first begin to trend, I looked up the data and saw the raw numbers. Any preconceived notions you may have are yours and yours alone.
- wonderwonder 4y ago
  What rhetoric? Asians are being discriminated against, see the entire Harvard scandal. As well as corporate hiring policies. At no point in time did I say it was just by African Americans. I did reference a national series of events that involved African Americans because it allowed me to describe an anecdotal experience involving a corporate DEI director. As far as African Americans holding anti semitic views, nearly a quarter of African Americans hold antisemitic views as opposed to 14% of the general population. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.adl.org/sites/default/files/documents/ADL_MS_Survey_Pres_1_25_17.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwi2yaW37Yj9AhXPTDABHbgTA_QQFnoECA0QAQ&usg=AOvVaw1b0eFQDwIvZSlZYnBydscZ https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https:/... What have I said that is not "rational, open, and unbiased"? I was very clear that the DEI director experience was something I saw and I provided the context of when it occurred. Take your accusations elsewhere.
jimbob45 4y ago
Americans in general are dumbasses when it comes to Jews. Most I talk to don't know the difference between an ethnic Jew and a practicing Jew. Most consider someone to be a practicing Jew/Jewish if they've ever been to Temple, even if they haven't gone in years. Meanwhile, those same people won't consider themselves to be a practicing Christian because "they haven't been to church in years". The whole conversation is just brainrot.
andrepd 4y ago
That meme is kind of stupid, to be fair. Scientific skepticism means question and probe and doubt in a measure appropriate to the evidence presented, not that we suddenly have to doubt that the earth is round or that gravity exists.
- wonderwonder 4y ago
  Sure in those specific cases but not in the context of journals like Nature announcing that they will refuse to publish any scientific studies that conflict with their DEI policies. Also I'm a sucker for anything involving Lego people
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bunbunbun 4y ago

Washington post had a nice economic and historical analysis of what you are talking about a few years ago: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/11/29/the-real-reason-americans-stopped-spitting-on-asian-americans-and-started-praising-them/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/11/29/the-r... It’s not exhaustive but gives some touchstones for further reading

throwawayacc6 4y ago
https://archive.is/62ktx https://archive.is/62ktx

bwing 4y ago

There's no logical endpoint for "disparate group outcomes prove a problem that must be fixed" outside of discrimination against Asians and Jews. (It's an ineffective racist, white supremacist society that allows immigrant Asians and their descendants to outscore native whites on every metric of success used to prove the racism and white supremacy.)

faeriechangling 4y ago

Asians have been facing discrimination in work and schools for over a century. DEI is conceptually much younger. It’s just more yellow peril bullshit wrapped up in a veneer of morality pushed by career racists and bigots.

testfoobar 4y ago
I've heard it quite explicitly. Acquaintances with diversity/blm/love is love/lgbt yard signs, anti-racist t-shirts, the whole yards will unprompted make blindingly racist statements about Chinese and Indians. E.g. Academic ambition is all "those people" care about...Asians are hoarding all the "best spots" in universities/jobs. "They" must hate their kids. Their kids must be all so unhappy and miserable. If you present a neutral, non-judgmental, position, it has been surprising me to how so many people will share all their racist views.

snowpid 4y ago

I am repeatedly surprised that in Germany some vocal antisemitics are black. (Not so many but everything above 0 is just surprising)

mrguyorama 4y ago
Man, it's almost like black people are people too and susceptible to the same faults as those with a lighter complexion, and being part of an oppressed class does not grant you immunity to being an oppressor
- snowpid 4y ago
  The example I have in mind arent in an oppressed class because they have money but are very likely victims of rassism. Nor are black people are oppressors because of lack of numbers in that particular case. These people are antisemitics though they experience very similar to what Jews feel in Germany today.
- deleted 4y ago
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- deleted 4y ago
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bwing 4y ago
If anything, it reflects a greater degree of logical rigor: 1) It's commonly taken as a simple fact that overrepresentation of white people among e.g. the top hedge fund managers is evidence of society being structured in those people's favor 2) Jews are way more overrepresented among top hedge fund managers than non-Jewish whites 3) ... Obviously the missing piece here is that (taken as a whole; obviously "Jews" comprises many different groups) Jewish people, on average, are culturally and genetically predisposed to success in intellectual fields. However, if you notice this but grow up in a climate where cultural and genetic reasons for group success are verboten, the nefarious explanations are the ones left.
MisterTea 4y ago
I am continually surprised that there are people who are surprised that black and brown people can participate in racism.

skippyboxedhero 4y ago

Historical racism is largely interpreted today as hate directed towards minority groups. Very roughly: people were racist because they hated X or Y, that was some defect in their personality, some individual reason, mental illness, etc. But it was also a function of group dynamics and attempting to preserve cohesion (perhaps more commonly, I think actively hating people you don't know has always been regarded as odd). Outsiders were discriminated against in order to maintain the values of the group (ignoring for a second whether these values were good or bad). And this kind of collective thinking is something that is more typical of the left. So you are seeing more and more of this reverse discrimination. And will continue to do so because this instinct towards group cohesion is overwhelming. You also see this outside the US with left-wing nationalist groups. I think there a tacit assumption today that left-wing and nationalism cannot go together. But nationalism has often been a key source of group cohesion for left-wing movements, and that has (unfortunately) often been defined exclusively. To say this another way: this has to end up with more discrimination. Everything that you do as an adult today is set against your record of "privilege". Why do people pretend to be poor? Why do people pretend to be a different race? And the people doing this are apparently privileged ones? It makes no sense.

prox 4y ago
I have been going over the article and the comments a couple of times now. And it makes no sense to me at all. So with some distance from this subject, it’s seems by reading the comments to be a very polarized issue with lots of emotional reactivity attached to it (and calling out the “other side”) I have no idea what DEI is (not the acronym, the movement behind it) and what it’s cultural setting is, and if it is different from other systems or movements that promote equality. I would love to see a neutral toned third party observer insight into the mechanics of this topic.
- crackercrews 4y ago
  Where are you based that you aren't familiar with the DEI movement? What do you do? I mean no offense and am just curious. > if it is different from other systems or movements that promote equality. DEI promotes equity, not equality. As Kamala Harris said, equity means "we all end up at the same place". It is a pipe dream that people will achieve equity in all regards. This mindset is applied unevenly to areas where DEI proponents want to hold back the high achievers. There is no push for height equity in the NBA.

distantaidenn 4y ago

I hate to see this rhetoric on HN. I considered this one of the last bastions of rational, open, and unbiased discourse. I suppose "Eternal September" comes for all. As a member of the Black and Asian community (and others), first I'd like to say. What? Since when did Black people (en masse) begin assigning any manner of blame to the Jewish community as the "real enemies?" Aside from a one particular prominent rap artist and one very fringe religious group, no one I know or any of the Black online communities I frequent have ever said such. If there was a newsletter, I sure as hell didn't get it. Regarding the Black on Asian violence we saw in the US. It was and is a damned shame. Again, as a member of those communities, it hurts. However, I know I walk the fine line of whataboutism here, but I have to make it known. The increase in Asian hate was not led by Black Americans (but the reporting of it sure as hell made it look that way). I'll leave it as an exercise to the reader to determine which group was the number one culprit of such vile acts -- from simple assault to mass murder. Regardless, no matter the culprit, any act of violence based on race is absolutely and utterly reprehensible. We don't need a designated "bad guy" in order to address these horrible events. We all need to do better. [Edit] I seemed to have ruffled some feathers here.

skippyboxedhero 4y ago
> We don't need a designated "bad guy" in order to address these horrible events. We all need to do better. Also: > I'll leave it as an exercise to the reader to determine which group was the number one culprit of such vile acts I think everyone hates to see this on HN. Implying that your "and we know which race is responsible" is unbiased is...something else.
- distantaidenn 4y ago
  That's my point. I'm not pointing fingers. When these stories first begin to trend, I looked up the data and saw the raw numbers. Any preconceived notions you may have are yours and yours alone.
wonderwonder 4y ago
What rhetoric? Asians are being discriminated against, see the entire Harvard scandal. As well as corporate hiring policies. At no point in time did I say it was just by African Americans. I did reference a national series of events that involved African Americans because it allowed me to describe an anecdotal experience involving a corporate DEI director. As far as African Americans holding anti semitic views, nearly a quarter of African Americans hold antisemitic views as opposed to 14% of the general population. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.adl.org/sites/default/files/documents/ADL_MS_Survey_Pres_1_25_17.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwi2yaW37Yj9AhXPTDABHbgTA_QQFnoECA0QAQ&usg=AOvVaw1b0eFQDwIvZSlZYnBydscZ https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https:/... What have I said that is not "rational, open, and unbiased"? I was very clear that the DEI director experience was something I saw and I provided the context of when it occurred. Take your accusations elsewhere.

jimbob45 4y ago

Americans in general are dumbasses when it comes to Jews. Most I talk to don't know the difference between an ethnic Jew and a practicing Jew. Most consider someone to be a practicing Jew/Jewish if they've ever been to Temple, even if they haven't gone in years. Meanwhile, those same people won't consider themselves to be a practicing Christian because "they haven't been to church in years". The whole conversation is just brainrot.

andrepd 4y ago

That meme is kind of stupid, to be fair. Scientific skepticism means question and probe and doubt in a measure appropriate to the evidence presented, not that we suddenly have to doubt that the earth is round or that gravity exists.

wonderwonder 4y ago
Sure in those specific cases but not in the context of journals like Nature announcing that they will refuse to publish any scientific studies that conflict with their DEI policies. Also I'm a sucker for anything involving Lego people

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