4 ms·

Or, equivalently, "people like that are paid a lot and are engrossed in their careers." When someone makes $500k+, what does "unpaid overtime" even mean?

_cenw 4y ago
I wouldn't want my $500k+ engineer to even remotely get close to burning themselves out.
sofixa 4y ago
> When someone makes $500k+, what does "unpaid overtime" even mean? It means shit work/life balance, thus missing on a lot of people that would want to have it and results in worse productivity (people need time off or they break).
- cj 4y ago
  > It means shit work/life balance Solution: take a job that doesn't pay $500k. I hate this saying and rarely say it, but "you can't have your cake and eat it too" No one should take a $500k job and expect the culture to be 9-5, clock in clock out. It takes most people 10+ years to earn $500k (often still working their asses off overtime). $500k is a shit ton of money.
mynameisvlad 4y ago
Money doesn’t magically make burnout go away. In fact, it will make it worse, because you’ll keep telling yourself to hold on for the money while your mental health exponentially deteriorates.
- fshbbdssbbgdd 4y ago
  Only things that ever gave me burnout were incompetent coworkers, and organizations that were doomed to fail.
  - mynameisvlad 4y ago
    Great anecdote, but burnout generally isn't caused by that for most people. At its core, it's because of stress. Incompetent coworkers and organizations may certainly cause stress, but rarely is it so bad that it causes burnout. https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/adult-health/in-depth/burnout/art-20046642 https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/adult-health/in... https://www.helpguide.org/articles/stress/burnout-prevention-and-recovery.htm https://www.helpguide.org/articles/stress/burnout-prevention...
    - 0xB31B1B 4y ago
      The ambitious people who take 500k/year jobs at HFT firms are to top .25% of "workers" in some abstract measure, and have different expectations and causes of burnout relative to the median burnout experiencer who is for example a school teacher or administrative assistant in an office job. Some people have an addiction to the fast pace, feeling of being need, and stress.
      - xyzelement 4y ago
        This is a really good insight! I am not an HFT guy but ex hedge fund and I think this is spot on with my experience and former colleagues.
    - roncesvalles 4y ago
      Loss of efficiency/productivity might not be the product of burnout. It might be the cause. People get addicted to the dopamine hits of getting things done and when they hit a wall, enter a vicious cycle of depressive withdrawal. Recovering from burnout by taking a break is simply resetting that dopamine addiction. Just a personal theory. If you work in a high paced environment with competent colleagues, management and tooling, you can just keep rolling with the punches and never hit the wall.
- bydlocoder 4y ago
  The job being interesting does though.
- pclmulqdq 4y ago
  Being ambitious and having an environment that lets you run (and rewards you for it) is what prevents burnout at a place like that. A lot of people at hedge funds like having a baseline level of good stress in their lives. It's only when the stress starts to make you feel insecure that it creates problems. I worked at one of these firms for a while, and my "burnout" point came when I realized I wasn't actually getting rewarded for my extra contributions to the company (my bonuses were going up by a small amount each quarter, no matter what).

_cenw 4y ago

I wouldn't want my $500k+ engineer to even remotely get close to burning themselves out.

sofixa 4y ago

> When someone makes $500k+, what does "unpaid overtime" even mean? It means shit work/life balance, thus missing on a lot of people that would want to have it and results in worse productivity (people need time off or they break).

cj 4y ago
> It means shit work/life balance Solution: take a job that doesn't pay $500k. I hate this saying and rarely say it, but "you can't have your cake and eat it too" No one should take a $500k job and expect the culture to be 9-5, clock in clock out. It takes most people 10+ years to earn $500k (often still working their asses off overtime). $500k is a shit ton of money.

mynameisvlad 4y ago

Money doesn’t magically make burnout go away. In fact, it will make it worse, because you’ll keep telling yourself to hold on for the money while your mental health exponentially deteriorates.

fshbbdssbbgdd 4y ago
Only things that ever gave me burnout were incompetent coworkers, and organizations that were doomed to fail.
- mynameisvlad 4y ago
  Great anecdote, but burnout generally isn't caused by that for most people. At its core, it's because of stress. Incompetent coworkers and organizations may certainly cause stress, but rarely is it so bad that it causes burnout. https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/adult-health/in-depth/burnout/art-20046642 https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/adult-health/in... https://www.helpguide.org/articles/stress/burnout-prevention-and-recovery.htm https://www.helpguide.org/articles/stress/burnout-prevention...
  - 0xB31B1B 4y ago
    The ambitious people who take 500k/year jobs at HFT firms are to top .25% of "workers" in some abstract measure, and have different expectations and causes of burnout relative to the median burnout experiencer who is for example a school teacher or administrative assistant in an office job. Some people have an addiction to the fast pace, feeling of being need, and stress.
    - xyzelement 4y ago
      This is a really good insight! I am not an HFT guy but ex hedge fund and I think this is spot on with my experience and former colleagues.
  - roncesvalles 4y ago
    Loss of efficiency/productivity might not be the product of burnout. It might be the cause. People get addicted to the dopamine hits of getting things done and when they hit a wall, enter a vicious cycle of depressive withdrawal. Recovering from burnout by taking a break is simply resetting that dopamine addiction. Just a personal theory. If you work in a high paced environment with competent colleagues, management and tooling, you can just keep rolling with the punches and never hit the wall.
bydlocoder 4y ago
The job being interesting does though.
pclmulqdq 4y ago
Being ambitious and having an environment that lets you run (and rewards you for it) is what prevents burnout at a place like that. A lot of people at hedge funds like having a baseline level of good stress in their lives. It's only when the stress starts to make you feel insecure that it creates problems. I worked at one of these firms for a while, and my "burnout" point came when I realized I wasn't actually getting rewarded for my extra contributions to the company (my bonuses were going up by a small amount each quarter, no matter what).