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The train has been stopped, but it's still on track. Time to push it into the other direction and maybe even let it derail spectaculously. But there is more nee

The train has been stopped, but it's still on track. Time to push it into the other direction and maybe even let it derail spectaculously. But there is more needed than raising awareness with this blackout. This awareness should be exploited (in a good way) appropriately. - We as those that do understand the issue have the responsibility to explain the problem to the majority. I still find it very difficult to effectively reason against censorship, privacy and the like to "normal" people, in words that they can relate to. A few weeks ago I personally accepted that challenge and are training. I thought this thread was a good inspiration: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3425973 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3425973 - Those who speak in public, especially in the mass-media, should not think that they can win a discussion only with arguments, no matter how valid they may be. Please ramp up the rhetoric skills. Alexis Ohanian does not look like he is an expert in PR, so maybe he should be joined by public speakers with experience with hostile (and outright lying) opponents, but he made a very good start, and makes notable progress each time I see him. I know I would be killed out there. Thanks Alexis, and keep it up! I applaud the stand that Wikipedia makes and, being a german, propose that the blackout should not end on English Wikipedia. The USA still is the most influential country in the world, and this fight is international, just as the web is international. Please do not mourn for one day without your favorite sites. Show some solidarity among internet citizens. I am quite happy with the progress that has been made.

nextparadigms 15y ago
I don't know how likely it is that Wikipedia will do it, but it would certainly be nice to blackout globally and send a broad message that they will fight against any kind of Internet censorship, and that the January 18th blackout is a warning for that. It might help reverse the recent international trend in Internet censorship, too, which is no doubt also coordinated by MPAA and RIAA.
sequoia 15y ago
"The USA still is the most influential country in the world, and this fight is international, just as the web is international." As a US citizen, I didn't want to be the one to say this (in response to e.g. https://twitter.com/#!/foxhuntingx/statuses/158964506209427456 https://twitter.com/#!/foxhuntingx/statuses/1589645062094274... ) because it might sound arrogant, but seriously, Herr Duerksen is correct: People in Australia, UK, and other non-US places affected by the en.wikipedia blackout can cover their eyes and ears and pretend SOPA doesn't affect them but I think this is a ridiculous stance. Yes, much of the world looks to/points at the US for various speech &c. policies. Furthermore, much of the Anglophone world uses US internet services and products that would likely be affected by SOPA (facebook, youtube, reddit, en.wikipedia, 4chan, etc.). If it passes, SOPA probably will affect you whether you live in Boston or Brisbane. There are many people who seem to hard time grasping the fact that US law applies to US sites, regardless of what country you are in (see: "Google turned off my 10 year old's Gmail even tho I live in the UK and it's a US law!!! US law doesn't govern me!!" <- yes but US does govern Google, which operates out of the US). This fact is a good argument for creating competing services not based in the US (even tho it'd probably be illegal for us 'murkins to use them :/ ).
- tobylane 15y ago
  Often when other countries take the US's lead it's for an advantage, or by force (see Bush-Blair and the recent Spanish thing). I'd be interested to know what the international pressure people are doing now or after Sopa is abandoned, if they still try to get other countries to do something similar.
  - p3rs3us 15y ago
    Though I will not call it an international pressure, but what is happening right now in India (http://ibnlive.in.com/news/delhi-hc-to-hear-google-facebook-plea-today/221423-3.html http://ibnlive.in.com/news/delhi-hc-to-hear-google-facebook-...) may be attributed to US's stand on this issue.
- notahacker 15y ago
  It's not about whether it would affect us, it's about we can affect it. Speaking as a Brit, I can't wait for Wikipedia's advice on how to contact my local Congressional delegation. (Footnote: Wikipedia points out that 55% of people supporting a blackout wanted it to be global, and its true this option had the plurality of votes. It's also true that the majority of people participating voted for something less than a global blackout. Not sure it would have been the Concordcet winner!)
  - sequoia 15y ago
    This is a really good point and something that the anti-SOPA movement should address better (or at least publicize better). I imagine phoning into the American consulate or embassy tomorrow couldn't hurt! They will say "we don't control that" but you can just let them know you are upset about WP being out, upset about SOPA, and liable to stop using US 'net services if becomes clear that the US market is "unsafe" for 'net business. I'll edit if I find more specific information for how non-US people can oppose SOPA.
Natsu 15y ago
I agree. We need to be the first one to inform people about this legislation and the threat it poses to the internet. We shouldn't waste this opportunity to do so, or they will restart the legislation and sneak it in somewhere whenever we let our guard down. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. I wonder how we can push back, too. I've heard the idea of a Constitutional amendment floated around, but what would it say? "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of any blacklist, or prohibiting freedom of association online; or abridging the freedom to connect to other countries, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances online."? Or perhaps, "The right of the people to be secure in their computers, passwords, access tokens, and personal data, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons, data or things to be seized." Those aren't really serious suggestions, but I am concerned about things like our government setting up national blacklists, even "voluntary" ones, choosing who we can and cannot communicate with online and trawling through people's data wholesale, without first demonstrating probable cause.
- Newgy 15y ago
  Everything we need is already in the Constitution, in the First and Fourth Amendments of the Bill of Rights. We just have to defend our freedoms...through protest and through votes. "Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it." --Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4,1777
  - r00fus 15y ago
    Consider the Wikipedia shutdown a form of online protest. A small price to pay to defend our freedom.
    - 15y ago
kcima 15y ago
Many of us have n*100 Facebook friends who may suddenly open up their ears to this issue come Wednesday when Wikipedia goes dark. For those of us who understand but may not be exceedingly eloquent, what are some examples of a graphic explanation bringing to light the horror of the issue that would also be short enough to fit into a Facebook status update?

nextparadigms 15y ago

I don't know how likely it is that Wikipedia will do it, but it would certainly be nice to blackout globally and send a broad message that they will fight against any kind of Internet censorship, and that the January 18th blackout is a warning for that. It might help reverse the recent international trend in Internet censorship, too, which is no doubt also coordinated by MPAA and RIAA.

sequoia 15y ago

"The USA still is the most influential country in the world, and this fight is international, just as the web is international." As a US citizen, I didn't want to be the one to say this (in response to e.g. https://twitter.com/#!/foxhuntingx/statuses/158964506209427456 https://twitter.com/#!/foxhuntingx/statuses/1589645062094274... ) because it might sound arrogant, but seriously, Herr Duerksen is correct: People in Australia, UK, and other non-US places affected by the en.wikipedia blackout can cover their eyes and ears and pretend SOPA doesn't affect them but I think this is a ridiculous stance. Yes, much of the world looks to/points at the US for various speech &c. policies. Furthermore, much of the Anglophone world uses US internet services and products that would likely be affected by SOPA (facebook, youtube, reddit, en.wikipedia, 4chan, etc.). If it passes, SOPA probably will affect you whether you live in Boston or Brisbane. There are many people who seem to hard time grasping the fact that US law applies to US sites, regardless of what country you are in (see: "Google turned off my 10 year old's Gmail even tho I live in the UK and it's a US law!!! US law doesn't govern me!!" <- yes but US does govern Google, which operates out of the US). This fact is a good argument for creating competing services not based in the US (even tho it'd probably be illegal for us 'murkins to use them :/ ).

tobylane 15y ago
Often when other countries take the US's lead it's for an advantage, or by force (see Bush-Blair and the recent Spanish thing). I'd be interested to know what the international pressure people are doing now or after Sopa is abandoned, if they still try to get other countries to do something similar.
- p3rs3us 15y ago
  Though I will not call it an international pressure, but what is happening right now in India (http://ibnlive.in.com/news/delhi-hc-to-hear-google-facebook-plea-today/221423-3.html http://ibnlive.in.com/news/delhi-hc-to-hear-google-facebook-...) may be attributed to US's stand on this issue.
notahacker 15y ago
It's not about whether it would affect us, it's about we can affect it. Speaking as a Brit, I can't wait for Wikipedia's advice on how to contact my local Congressional delegation. (Footnote: Wikipedia points out that 55% of people supporting a blackout wanted it to be global, and its true this option had the plurality of votes. It's also true that the majority of people participating voted for something less than a global blackout. Not sure it would have been the Concordcet winner!)
- sequoia 15y ago
  This is a really good point and something that the anti-SOPA movement should address better (or at least publicize better). I imagine phoning into the American consulate or embassy tomorrow couldn't hurt! They will say "we don't control that" but you can just let them know you are upset about WP being out, upset about SOPA, and liable to stop using US 'net services if becomes clear that the US market is "unsafe" for 'net business. I'll edit if I find more specific information for how non-US people can oppose SOPA.

Natsu 15y ago

I agree. We need to be the first one to inform people about this legislation and the threat it poses to the internet. We shouldn't waste this opportunity to do so, or they will restart the legislation and sneak it in somewhere whenever we let our guard down. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. I wonder how we can push back, too. I've heard the idea of a Constitutional amendment floated around, but what would it say? "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of any blacklist, or prohibiting freedom of association online; or abridging the freedom to connect to other countries, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances online."? Or perhaps, "The right of the people to be secure in their computers, passwords, access tokens, and personal data, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons, data or things to be seized." Those aren't really serious suggestions, but I am concerned about things like our government setting up national blacklists, even "voluntary" ones, choosing who we can and cannot communicate with online and trawling through people's data wholesale, without first demonstrating probable cause.

Newgy 15y ago
Everything we need is already in the Constitution, in the First and Fourth Amendments of the Bill of Rights. We just have to defend our freedoms...through protest and through votes. "Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it." --Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4,1777
- r00fus 15y ago
  Consider the Wikipedia shutdown a form of online protest. A small price to pay to defend our freedom.
  - 15y ago

kcima 15y ago

Many of us have n*100 Facebook friends who may suddenly open up their ears to this issue come Wednesday when Wikipedia goes dark. For those of us who understand but may not be exceedingly eloquent, what are some examples of a graphic explanation bringing to light the horror of the issue that would also be short enough to fit into a Facebook status update?