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I guess it's a testament to how loved Rust is as a language that there are so many projects posted here with "...built in Rust".."written in Rust". I like Rust,

I guess it's a testament to how loved Rust is as a language that there are so many projects posted here with "...built in Rust".."written in Rust". I like Rust, but in some contexts I wonder how or why it matters that it was written in Rust (I know there are some projects where for security or other reasons it may actually matter) to me as an end user or at least why it's so important that posts introducing the project lead with that fact. Sometimes, it just seems like a low level implementation detail that is unimportant. Naming the entire project after Rust ("rustdesk") is a whole new level though :)

misja111 4y ago
A couple of years ago there was an avalanche of posts about projects written in Go. Today's hyped language is Rust. Give it another couple of years and some new language will have taken its place here.
capableweb 4y ago
> Naming the entire project after Rust ("rustdesk") is a whole new level though :) That happens to most ecosystems that go through a "hype cycle" just like Rust is right now. So many Go projects have something "Go" in them, same with JavaScript, Ruby and all the others who've walked the path.
- xwowsersx 4y ago
  Hah right. I'm surprised at how protracted this hype cycle is. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=in%20rust%20&sort=byPopularity&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...
  - capableweb 4y ago
    Back in 2011 or so, until forever, it felt like every day there was a mandatory "X made in Ruby" frontpage story as well. I'm sure this one will pass too, once a new language appears that everyone HAS to write everything in.
- lolinder 4y ago
  Normally I see the name of the language included in libraries, not applications. In that context it makes a bit more sense because it actually does matter what language the library was written in/for. For a remote desktop application it's hard to see why it's relevant enough to be included in the name.
- cozzyd 4y ago
  Yeah, I really think it's weird to include the language name in the package name unless it's a language-specific library (with no FFI... C libraries almost never include C in their names) or bindings to something. The language is (usually) an implementation detail for an "app" And in this specific case, a rusty desk is probably not what most people want, so if you want any non-programmers to use it... it's not the best name.
cmeacham98 4y ago
It's not that it's impossible to write secure code in C/C++ or that it's impossible to write insecure code in Rust, but Rust makes it much harder to write a particularly prevalent class of bug (memory safety). These bugs are obviously particularly bad because of the security implications, but even for applications where you don't care about security having the app randomly segfault is no fun. All else being equal, I would choose an application written in Rust over C/C++. That said, obviously the name of this project is just because the author likes Rust a lot. It happens in other languages too ("go" in Go projects, "py" in Python projects, etc).
- bogwog 4y ago
  Is this the new “I’m on Arch btw”? The comment you’re replying to doesn’t say anything about memory safety or C++
  - cmeacham98 4y ago
    Rust's security improvements the comment I'm replying to mentions come from the fact it is memory safe. C/C++ are just the obvious comparison for a very popular memory unsafe language.
  - sophacles 4y ago
    No it's the new "I use go btw" (which itself is the new "just use python for that", which was the new "do it in java for portability". I wasn't old enough to witness C++'s initial rise, but it was famous for it's hype squad and people selling it as a silver bullet. As was C (that slow language will never be as good as a real programmer doing it all in assembly is the story there IIRC)).
avgcorrection 4y ago
I have no problem with noting that it is written in Rust. But why name the app after the language?
- lavasalesman 4y ago
  Rust apps are in their "Nintendo 64" era
- criddell 4y ago
  Maybe that's the most interesting or distinguishing feature of the app?
  - timbit42 4y ago
    What I find most interesting is that it has better UI than AnyDesk. I haven't used TeamViewer in so long, I can't comment on it.
    - criddell 4y ago
      I haven't used either AnyDesk or TeamViewer. Looking at the snapshot in the linked article, RustDesk looks like a web page. The window chrome looks like macOS, but the application does not look very Macintosh-y. I personally don't think it looks great, but if it works well enough, maybe that doesn't matter.
      - timbit42 4y ago
        My biggest complaint about AnyDesk is that sometimes I have to walk people through downloading and installing it over the phone. When AnyDesk is installed, the tab with the connection ID is overlaid by a tab with an ad. At that point I have to give up because many people don't understand tabs and don't know how to close it or switch tabs so they can see the connection ID. Very user unfriendly. I was very glad to see RustDesk come along.
w4rh4wk5 4y ago
Like others have already mentioned, _usually_ programs written in Rust are far more stable than their respective C/C++ implementation. One impressive data point (for me) is this: https://youtu.be/GtRo-eF8-TE?t=671 https://youtu.be/GtRo-eF8-TE?t=671
- xwowsersx 4y ago
  > Total "crash" issues encountered: 2. That part?
  - w4rh4wk5 4y ago
    Exactly. Over the life span of ~3 years or what it was. That's pretty impressive if you ask me.
brightball 4y ago
It's an actual selling point more than a "loved" situation. If I see something built for massive concurrency and I see Erlang or Elixir, I'm immediately much more confident in the tooling. If I see something written in Rust, I'm confident in it's memory safety at a minimum but it usually bodes well for quality code in general.
- Thaxll 4y ago
  > bodes well for quality code in general Built in Rust does not assess of good code quality at all, it just tells you that you will most likely not have a class of bugs or issues, but the code itself can be very ugly. As a matter of fact given that Rust is "young" most people don't have a lot of knowledge and will most likely copy paterns from other languages, especially when fighting with the borrow checker. Just open some random Rust code, open the lib.rs and see how things are organized in there, you will be very surprised.
  - brightball 4y ago
    That's fair. Code quality may have been a stretch. I'm mostly basing that on what I've read about Rust both here and in various other communities about the guarantees provided by the compiler/runtime itself. I haven't even dabbled in it yet myself, but I plan to at some point.
  - wyager 4y ago
    Language choice is absolutely a powerful indicator of expected code quality. I don't want to start a language flame war, but I have some heuristics around P(I am satisfied with software|software is written in language X) that are very predictive. Besides the first-order effects of choice of language on program behavior (e.g. presence of type errors, memory errors, etc.) it also has a second-order filtering effect on the type of people writing programs and their mindset. There are certain languages without a strong first-order effect that nonetheless have a very strong second-order effect.
    - cozzyd 4y ago
rjzzleep 4y ago
It's worth noting that for a few years people suffixed all their stuff with "made in node" to get upvoted and then for a while with "made in go". I always tell my clients not to fall into the trap of treating personal preferences as the optimal solution to a problem.
- 100721 4y ago
  > I always tell my clients to fall into the trap of treating personal preferences as the optimal solution to a problem. Are you missing a negation here? I might be missing the intended tone perhaps?
  - rjzzleep 4y ago
    Yes, I do, thank you.
cleanchit 4y ago
It starts off as a way of inviting other rust programmers to contribute. But then the project matures and becomes an end user product and we end up like this project. The fact that we see so many rust* project is a testament to the usability and power of the language.
worksonmine 4y ago
This comment is so common here I decided to do a quick search here on HN: - written in go: 1331 results - written in rust: 1043 results - written in python: 763 results - written in javascript: 525 results Not intended to be scientific and there are false positives but you get my point. Personally I appreciate not having to visit the repository to find out. A tool being written in a language I know and enjoy is a benefit.
- lolinder 4y ago
  > A tool being written in a language I know and enjoy is a benefit. Sincere question: why? I 100% agree about libraries, but why does the implementation language of an application matter to you?
  - worksonmine 4y ago
    I enjoy tinkering and making my life unnecessarily difficult is a hobby. To give you an example i use: - dwm as window manager - neomutt for email - newsboat for feeds - notifications with inotifywait/watch and notify-send - vim keybindings EVERYWHERE Because of this the I've become very reliant on the ability to tweak and customize the tools I use. I know I'm a minority but I'm so deep down the rabbit hole I can never go back.
    - anthk 4y ago
      On neomutt, use a Maildir config and use isync (mbsync) and msmtp. It's godly fast. No IMAP(S) related hangs, no needs to be online 24h, no slowdown over GUI's. Write your mails and queue them, send them later.
      - worksonmine 4y ago
        I am, and the sync is a cronjob triggering inotifywait watching the directories I'm interested in. Only thing I wish I had is less hassle unlocking the password file but I'll get there.
  - 4y ago
cultofmetatron 4y ago
in my case being built in rust is a benefit. elixir is my daily driver and rust fills a niche for me (all the domains where elixir isn't great) and they pair well together thanks to rustler. A project being written in rust communicates to me that if I ever wanted to join the community and start submitting patches, I could. I have little interest in devoting the next 10-15 years "mastering" c++ but I'm happy to dig into rust.
habibur 4y ago
"Rewrite it in" started with Node. Beginning at around 2010. Then there was "in Go". Mid 10s. And now it's Rust. 20s.
- ptx 4y ago
  And Java before that.
  - habibur 4y ago
    System tools weren't written in Java that much. People used Java, but mostly for GUI apps. Not command line tools.
Hirrolot 4y ago
The Rust community seems to be obsessed with the idea of re-writing every prior piece of software in Rust, to such an extent that there is a specific word for it: RIIR. This is sometimes funny, since it demonstrates the incentive to be "approved", to be praised, for some reason unknown to me. And yet, I don't see much game-changing software written in Rust, such as Docker or Kubernetes.
adamnemecek 4y ago
Rust projects are infinitely easier to contribute to.
anderspitman 4y ago
It's a reliable way to get engagement on HN. You're guaranteed lots of comments from the Rust Evangelism Task Force as well as people inevitably asking why everyone mentions their projects are written in Rust.
0xbeefeed 4y ago
[dead]
sophacles 4y ago
Remote desktop software is traditionally the source of many hacks - like exploiting the software itself, not just using it. So there is a relevant security angle here. Aside from that though - there's a lot of comments on rust threads in general about how Rust isn't ready for this or that or the next thing, so these types of projects showcase that maybe the "not ready" info is outdated or over-exaggerated. It's also one of those things that seems to occur "naturally" as a language becomes more widely adopted. A few years ago there were tons of projects linked here about "x - a tool for y written in go". And before that ruby or python, etc.
MuffinFlavored 4y ago
> or why it matters that it was written in Rust Because it's an accomplishment to ship anything of complexity in Rust! /s Maybe you can look at it as "wow, it's an entire application with no unsafe code and really good (perfect?) memory safety"?
ironmagma 4y ago
As an exercise, think what the result would be if it was "written in PHP" instead.
chem83 4y ago
My thought process is that Rust's memory model not only has a positive impact on security, but on program correctness all up. This means fewer lock ups, better performance, resource utilization etc. without so much effort from the developer. As such, while the 'built with Rust' label is no guarantee of a well-written program, it certainly avoids certain pitfalls that other languages are more susceptible to with a minimal performance tradeoff.
BFLpL0QNek 4y ago
Agree the underlying language is not to important. On the other hand when I see built with Rust I have high confidence it’s going to be fast, bloat free, easy to install binary and not some slow website packaged in electron made to look/feel like an app or some NodeJs app with 1000s of random dependencies.

misja111 4y ago

A couple of years ago there was an avalanche of posts about projects written in Go. Today's hyped language is Rust. Give it another couple of years and some new language will have taken its place here.

capableweb 4y ago

> Naming the entire project after Rust ("rustdesk") is a whole new level though :) That happens to most ecosystems that go through a "hype cycle" just like Rust is right now. So many Go projects have something "Go" in them, same with JavaScript, Ruby and all the others who've walked the path.

xwowsersx 4y ago
Hah right. I'm surprised at how protracted this hype cycle is. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=in%20rust%20&sort=byPopularity&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...
- capableweb 4y ago
  Back in 2011 or so, until forever, it felt like every day there was a mandatory "X made in Ruby" frontpage story as well. I'm sure this one will pass too, once a new language appears that everyone HAS to write everything in.
lolinder 4y ago
Normally I see the name of the language included in libraries, not applications. In that context it makes a bit more sense because it actually does matter what language the library was written in/for. For a remote desktop application it's hard to see why it's relevant enough to be included in the name.
cozzyd 4y ago
Yeah, I really think it's weird to include the language name in the package name unless it's a language-specific library (with no FFI... C libraries almost never include C in their names) or bindings to something. The language is (usually) an implementation detail for an "app" And in this specific case, a rusty desk is probably not what most people want, so if you want any non-programmers to use it... it's not the best name.

cmeacham98 4y ago

It's not that it's impossible to write secure code in C/C++ or that it's impossible to write insecure code in Rust, but Rust makes it much harder to write a particularly prevalent class of bug (memory safety). These bugs are obviously particularly bad because of the security implications, but even for applications where you don't care about security having the app randomly segfault is no fun. All else being equal, I would choose an application written in Rust over C/C++. That said, obviously the name of this project is just because the author likes Rust a lot. It happens in other languages too ("go" in Go projects, "py" in Python projects, etc).

bogwog 4y ago
Is this the new “I’m on Arch btw”? The comment you’re replying to doesn’t say anything about memory safety or C++
- cmeacham98 4y ago
  Rust's security improvements the comment I'm replying to mentions come from the fact it is memory safe. C/C++ are just the obvious comparison for a very popular memory unsafe language.
- sophacles 4y ago
  No it's the new "I use go btw" (which itself is the new "just use python for that", which was the new "do it in java for portability". I wasn't old enough to witness C++'s initial rise, but it was famous for it's hype squad and people selling it as a silver bullet. As was C (that slow language will never be as good as a real programmer doing it all in assembly is the story there IIRC)).

avgcorrection 4y ago

I have no problem with noting that it is written in Rust. But why name the app after the language?

lavasalesman 4y ago
Rust apps are in their "Nintendo 64" era
criddell 4y ago
Maybe that's the most interesting or distinguishing feature of the app?
- timbit42 4y ago
  What I find most interesting is that it has better UI than AnyDesk. I haven't used TeamViewer in so long, I can't comment on it.
  - criddell 4y ago
    I haven't used either AnyDesk or TeamViewer. Looking at the snapshot in the linked article, RustDesk looks like a web page. The window chrome looks like macOS, but the application does not look very Macintosh-y. I personally don't think it looks great, but if it works well enough, maybe that doesn't matter.
    - timbit42 4y ago
      My biggest complaint about AnyDesk is that sometimes I have to walk people through downloading and installing it over the phone. When AnyDesk is installed, the tab with the connection ID is overlaid by a tab with an ad. At that point I have to give up because many people don't understand tabs and don't know how to close it or switch tabs so they can see the connection ID. Very user unfriendly. I was very glad to see RustDesk come along.

w4rh4wk5 4y ago

Like others have already mentioned, _usually_ programs written in Rust are far more stable than their respective C/C++ implementation. One impressive data point (for me) is this: https://youtu.be/GtRo-eF8-TE?t=671 https://youtu.be/GtRo-eF8-TE?t=671

xwowsersx 4y ago
> Total "crash" issues encountered: 2. That part?
- w4rh4wk5 4y ago
  Exactly. Over the life span of ~3 years or what it was. That's pretty impressive if you ask me.

brightball 4y ago

It's an actual selling point more than a "loved" situation. If I see something built for massive concurrency and I see Erlang or Elixir, I'm immediately much more confident in the tooling. If I see something written in Rust, I'm confident in it's memory safety at a minimum but it usually bodes well for quality code in general.

Thaxll 4y ago
> bodes well for quality code in general Built in Rust does not assess of good code quality at all, it just tells you that you will most likely not have a class of bugs or issues, but the code itself can be very ugly. As a matter of fact given that Rust is "young" most people don't have a lot of knowledge and will most likely copy paterns from other languages, especially when fighting with the borrow checker. Just open some random Rust code, open the lib.rs and see how things are organized in there, you will be very surprised.
- brightball 4y ago
  That's fair. Code quality may have been a stretch. I'm mostly basing that on what I've read about Rust both here and in various other communities about the guarantees provided by the compiler/runtime itself. I haven't even dabbled in it yet myself, but I plan to at some point.
- wyager 4y ago
  Language choice is absolutely a powerful indicator of expected code quality. I don't want to start a language flame war, but I have some heuristics around P(I am satisfied with software|software is written in language X) that are very predictive. Besides the first-order effects of choice of language on program behavior (e.g. presence of type errors, memory errors, etc.) it also has a second-order filtering effect on the type of people writing programs and their mindset. There are certain languages without a strong first-order effect that nonetheless have a very strong second-order effect.
  - cozzyd 4y ago

rjzzleep 4y ago

It's worth noting that for a few years people suffixed all their stuff with "made in node" to get upvoted and then for a while with "made in go". I always tell my clients not to fall into the trap of treating personal preferences as the optimal solution to a problem.

100721 4y ago
> I always tell my clients to fall into the trap of treating personal preferences as the optimal solution to a problem. Are you missing a negation here? I might be missing the intended tone perhaps?
- rjzzleep 4y ago
  Yes, I do, thank you.

cleanchit 4y ago

It starts off as a way of inviting other rust programmers to contribute. But then the project matures and becomes an end user product and we end up like this project. The fact that we see so many rust* project is a testament to the usability and power of the language.

worksonmine 4y ago

This comment is so common here I decided to do a quick search here on HN: - written in go: 1331 results - written in rust: 1043 results - written in python: 763 results - written in javascript: 525 results Not intended to be scientific and there are false positives but you get my point. Personally I appreciate not having to visit the repository to find out. A tool being written in a language I know and enjoy is a benefit.

lolinder 4y ago
> A tool being written in a language I know and enjoy is a benefit. Sincere question: why? I 100% agree about libraries, but why does the implementation language of an application matter to you?
- worksonmine 4y ago
  I enjoy tinkering and making my life unnecessarily difficult is a hobby. To give you an example i use: - dwm as window manager - neomutt for email - newsboat for feeds - notifications with inotifywait/watch and notify-send - vim keybindings EVERYWHERE Because of this the I've become very reliant on the ability to tweak and customize the tools I use. I know I'm a minority but I'm so deep down the rabbit hole I can never go back.
  - anthk 4y ago
    On neomutt, use a Maildir config and use isync (mbsync) and msmtp. It's godly fast. No IMAP(S) related hangs, no needs to be online 24h, no slowdown over GUI's. Write your mails and queue them, send them later.
    - worksonmine 4y ago
      I am, and the sync is a cronjob triggering inotifywait watching the directories I'm interested in. Only thing I wish I had is less hassle unlocking the password file but I'll get there.
- 4y ago

cultofmetatron 4y ago

in my case being built in rust is a benefit. elixir is my daily driver and rust fills a niche for me (all the domains where elixir isn't great) and they pair well together thanks to rustler. A project being written in rust communicates to me that if I ever wanted to join the community and start submitting patches, I could. I have little interest in devoting the next 10-15 years "mastering" c++ but I'm happy to dig into rust.

habibur 4y ago

"Rewrite it in" started with Node. Beginning at around 2010. Then there was "in Go". Mid 10s. And now it's Rust. 20s.

ptx 4y ago
And Java before that.
- habibur 4y ago
  System tools weren't written in Java that much. People used Java, but mostly for GUI apps. Not command line tools.

Hirrolot 4y ago

The Rust community seems to be obsessed with the idea of re-writing every prior piece of software in Rust, to such an extent that there is a specific word for it: RIIR. This is sometimes funny, since it demonstrates the incentive to be "approved", to be praised, for some reason unknown to me. And yet, I don't see much game-changing software written in Rust, such as Docker or Kubernetes.

adamnemecek 4y ago

Rust projects are infinitely easier to contribute to.

anderspitman 4y ago

It's a reliable way to get engagement on HN. You're guaranteed lots of comments from the Rust Evangelism Task Force as well as people inevitably asking why everyone mentions their projects are written in Rust.

0xbeefeed 4y ago

[dead]

sophacles 4y ago

Remote desktop software is traditionally the source of many hacks - like exploiting the software itself, not just using it. So there is a relevant security angle here. Aside from that though - there's a lot of comments on rust threads in general about how Rust isn't ready for this or that or the next thing, so these types of projects showcase that maybe the "not ready" info is outdated or over-exaggerated. It's also one of those things that seems to occur "naturally" as a language becomes more widely adopted. A few years ago there were tons of projects linked here about "x - a tool for y written in go". And before that ruby or python, etc.

MuffinFlavored 4y ago

> or why it matters that it was written in Rust Because it's an accomplishment to ship anything of complexity in Rust! /s Maybe you can look at it as "wow, it's an entire application with no unsafe code and really good (perfect?) memory safety"?

ironmagma 4y ago

As an exercise, think what the result would be if it was "written in PHP" instead.

chem83 4y ago

My thought process is that Rust's memory model not only has a positive impact on security, but on program correctness all up. This means fewer lock ups, better performance, resource utilization etc. without so much effort from the developer. As such, while the 'built with Rust' label is no guarantee of a well-written program, it certainly avoids certain pitfalls that other languages are more susceptible to with a minimal performance tradeoff.

BFLpL0QNek 4y ago

Agree the underlying language is not to important. On the other hand when I see built with Rust I have high confidence it’s going to be fast, bloat free, easy to install binary and not some slow website packaged in electron made to look/feel like an app or some NodeJs app with 1000s of random dependencies.