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Hmm. It seems to me that laws and technology have failed to stop that gang. I'm not sure that stopping evil oligarchs - when you cannot - is a good argument for

Hmm. It seems to me that laws and technology have failed to stop that gang. I'm not sure that stopping evil oligarchs - when you cannot - is a good argument for preventing smaller people from saving their money.

throwaway290 4y ago
> It seems to me that laws and technology have failed to stop that gang Laws and sanctions actually hurt them. Law-immune technology is their enabler. If I could choose between a way to send money to my family in Russia the same way that sustains those criminals and not having that way but knowing that putin's gang is being starved of money, I'd choose the latter because the first option is a dead end. > I'm not sure that stopping evil oligarchs - when you cannot - is a good argument for preventing smaller people from saving their money. The theoretical benefit promised to the "smaller people" is far outweighed by the harm it does sustaining those dictatorships, both to the same smaller people and the world. A few honest hundred bucks here and there does not justify millions that prop the regime and kill more people. Sorry if this is inconvenient truth but cryptocoins are helping that regime much more than they are helping people that have to endure it.
- noduerme 4y ago
  > The theoretical benefit promised to the "smaller people" is far outweighed by the harm it does sustaining those dictatorships I have to disagree, as I am a small businessman and I have seen how liberating crypto was for people in small countries. Let me ask you this: What is worse for ordinary people: rich criminals stealing through Bitcoins? Or rich criminals running a country and banning your use of your own money? If you think Putin or his catamites are surviving on BTC exchange, you're crazy. Berlin is still paying Euros for his fucking oil and gas. The argument that free means of exchange should be wiped out because they are used by criminals, is the argument that has been used by criminals for hundreds of years to steal from everyone else.
  - throwaway290 4y ago
    > Berlin is still paying Euros for his fucking oil and gas. Realize he is also vehemently losing tanks and people right now and supply of money is critical for this sort of fun. Then try to imagine being putin or one of his friends and spending those euros anywhere without the magic of crypto dark market. Good luck! Those guys are not above any working way of financing their activities, especially now that the west is suddenly less easy to transact with, and they have perfectly crypto savvy people working for them. For the record, the "zlato" in Bitzlato (one of the largest players at localbitcoins) is Russian for "gold", and the guy running it was Russian operating from China. I'm sorry if it sounds dark and shatters your dreams of legally unencumbered entrepreneurship but it's just the way it is.
    - noduerme 4y ago
      No, this is one way of laundering money, but it is the same as cash. If Bitcoin doesn't exist, you don't think they can carry Euros over the border to China in a truck? Next day those get spent at some Louis Vuitton store in Paris. The Ruble they're paying the soldiers with isn't being propped up with Bitcoin.
      - throwaway290 4y ago
        Did you just make an argument that crypto is useless, because we have cash? Realize that the very things crypto is "solving" compared to cash is exactly why it is so attractive to this kind of laundering: scale. You can run a business on cash. You can't launder millions in cash with elegant ease. You need to pay for figurative duffel bags, vehicles to transport them, countless drivers and handlers who tend to steal and leak information.
- rom-antics 4y ago
  This is a strange narrative. Bitcoin was released in 2009. Putin's gang had no problem getting money before 2009. How do you think dictatorships have funded themselves throughout all of human history?
  - throwaway290 4y ago
    If you follow the news, actually serious sanctions that are actually enforced, london laundromat closure is all-new stuff

throwaway290 4y ago

> It seems to me that laws and technology have failed to stop that gang Laws and sanctions actually hurt them. Law-immune technology is their enabler. If I could choose between a way to send money to my family in Russia the same way that sustains those criminals and not having that way but knowing that putin's gang is being starved of money, I'd choose the latter because the first option is a dead end. > I'm not sure that stopping evil oligarchs - when you cannot - is a good argument for preventing smaller people from saving their money. The theoretical benefit promised to the "smaller people" is far outweighed by the harm it does sustaining those dictatorships, both to the same smaller people and the world. A few honest hundred bucks here and there does not justify millions that prop the regime and kill more people. Sorry if this is inconvenient truth but cryptocoins are helping that regime much more than they are helping people that have to endure it.

noduerme 4y ago
> The theoretical benefit promised to the "smaller people" is far outweighed by the harm it does sustaining those dictatorships I have to disagree, as I am a small businessman and I have seen how liberating crypto was for people in small countries. Let me ask you this: What is worse for ordinary people: rich criminals stealing through Bitcoins? Or rich criminals running a country and banning your use of your own money? If you think Putin or his catamites are surviving on BTC exchange, you're crazy. Berlin is still paying Euros for his fucking oil and gas. The argument that free means of exchange should be wiped out because they are used by criminals, is the argument that has been used by criminals for hundreds of years to steal from everyone else.
- throwaway290 4y ago
  > Berlin is still paying Euros for his fucking oil and gas. Realize he is also vehemently losing tanks and people right now and supply of money is critical for this sort of fun. Then try to imagine being putin or one of his friends and spending those euros anywhere without the magic of crypto dark market. Good luck! Those guys are not above any working way of financing their activities, especially now that the west is suddenly less easy to transact with, and they have perfectly crypto savvy people working for them. For the record, the "zlato" in Bitzlato (one of the largest players at localbitcoins) is Russian for "gold", and the guy running it was Russian operating from China. I'm sorry if it sounds dark and shatters your dreams of legally unencumbered entrepreneurship but it's just the way it is.
  - noduerme 4y ago
    No, this is one way of laundering money, but it is the same as cash. If Bitcoin doesn't exist, you don't think they can carry Euros over the border to China in a truck? Next day those get spent at some Louis Vuitton store in Paris. The Ruble they're paying the soldiers with isn't being propped up with Bitcoin.
    - throwaway290 4y ago
      Did you just make an argument that crypto is useless, because we have cash? Realize that the very things crypto is "solving" compared to cash is exactly why it is so attractive to this kind of laundering: scale. You can run a business on cash. You can't launder millions in cash with elegant ease. You need to pay for figurative duffel bags, vehicles to transport them, countless drivers and handlers who tend to steal and leak information.
rom-antics 4y ago
This is a strange narrative. Bitcoin was released in 2009. Putin's gang had no problem getting money before 2009. How do you think dictatorships have funded themselves throughout all of human history?
- throwaway290 4y ago
  If you follow the news, actually serious sanctions that are actually enforced, london laundromat closure is all-new stuff