11 ms·

Awwwww... The original "meet in person" model was so good. All the bank transfers, paypal, etc. never made any sense. Just a shout out to LocalBitcoins. When

• rvnx 4y ago
  Curious there, from what I understand, it seems like Localbitcoins is in general a place where you can buy Bitcoins for cheaper (19K instead of 21K). Which sounds a bit too good to be true. Could it be because it is Bitcoins collected from crime or ransomware, or just illegally exchanged ? Otherwise, why would someone sell Bitcoins cheaper if you pay them cash ?
  • noduerme 4y ago
    This is 2023, and you're misunderstanding the content of what I posted. What I wrote has nothing to do with "buying bitcoins" at lower than market rates. It's about buying locally inflated / artificially deflated paper currency at world market prices using Bitcoin as the exchange currency.
    • deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  • deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  • scotty79 4y ago
    Becuse you can easily hide small to medium amount of cash you got from taxation.
  • pjc50 4y ago
    Not 19k dollars, but the comparative value in Argentine pesos, which has a big spread between the official rate and the actually obtainable street rate.
• pavlov 4y ago
  > "He took their cash and sold it to people like me - expats, tourists - for BTC, and sent the BTC to his partner in Miami, who changed it out to USD and put it into American bank accounts for them." And now assume that the cash in Argentina isn't coming out of mattresses but from criminal activities, and the people receiving USD in America are part of the same cartel. A 5% transaction fee on both sides of the Bitcoin trade is just 9.75% for the complete wash cycle — very low for textbook money laundering.
  • m00dy 4y ago
    well, this is not money laundering...
    • gotorazor 4y ago
      but that's exactly what this is. It is money laundering. It just maybe didn't come from cartels and drug trade.
  • WhyNotHugo 4y ago
    > And now assume that the cash in Argentina isn't coming out of mattresses but from criminal activities Nah, it's very common for people to have savings in cash under a mattress. We had crises before where banks essentially kept people's savings and they never saw their money again. Trust is the banking system is non-existent.
    • gus_massa 4y ago
      I agree, just nitpicking: Usually is not the bank who keeps the money, but the government. In 2001 the "dollars in the bank" account were exchanged to a government bonds to be paid 10 or 20 years later. I don't remember the details because I had too few and I changed them immediately to pesos. (IIRC I used my pesos to buy stuff, but the transformation dollars-in-bank -> bonds -> pesos -> dollars-in-cash had a 20% or 30% hair cut.)
      • noduerme 4y ago
• londons_explore 4y ago
  I would be worried about posting a story like this when presumably some of what you are describing was against currency controls in argentina at the time? Aren't you slightly worried that this message might come back to bite you if you ever get investigated for anything and someone goes through your social media history looking for any evidence of lawbreaking?
  • noduerme 4y ago
    Not at all. At the time, I could have gone to Uruguay for the day, withdrawn $1000 USD from a local bank, and turned it into ARS$15000. Or I could have gotten ARS$3000 from withdrawing the same $1000 USD from a local ATM. Cristina Kirchner's money controls were absurd, and I was there the day Macri got elected and let the currency shoot up and obliterate everyone's ARS bank account. Everyone with any brains in Argentina owned USD and got it out of the country any way possible. I was the only person stupid enough to be bringing it in. What the fuck should I worry about.
    • gotorazor 4y ago
      I think that's the part why your story didn't make any sense to me. I am not questioning its truthfulness. Just, why? Why even go thru the hassle of using bitcoins? You could just exchange it with the guy on the street for pesos. Not sure about ten years ago. Right now, you can even western union money to yourself at the blue rate. I am sure you can even just pay people in USD in many cases.
      • noduerme 4y ago
        I'm not sure what the pay rate is now for Western Union, but the fees are high, and at the time I believe you only got the official rate in pesos. Moreover, I got a huge additional discount from my landlord for paying in actual USD as opposed to the same amount in blue rate pesos, because the pesos were hard to change and would be worth less the next month. I also ran a startup Bitcoin casino at the time, so I had access.
  • gus_massa 4y ago
• WhyNotHugo 4y ago
  I did something similar until 2013. I purchased BTC abroad with credit card, and sold them on MercadoLibre at the local rate. It was great until ML one day decided to ban selling crypto. It definitely kept me afloat for a few rough months, and allowed me to purchase my first laptop. I once had a guy on the phone who wanted 10kUSD in crypto. He seemed pretty serious and real, but I didn't have the capital to make such huge kind of transactions.
  • deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
• dsugarman 4y ago
  I went to Argentina for a month in 2011 to visit a friend. As soon as I got there he was trying to exchange for my usd cash I brought and offered me more than I'd get at the currency exchange, he told me he didn't trust his own currency. I thought it was really odd until a couple years later when there was a lot of reporting on the fear of hyper inflation.
  • noduerme 4y ago
    This is/was typical in Argentina. The reason is, in 2011 official prices and prices on controlled goods (like meat, bread, flour, water) was artificially pegged to $1 = ARS$3. But in reality the peso was much cheaper; this was a way to disburse the country's US Dollar reserve to the patrons of the ruling class. It had been done many times before at different currency pegs, while the government printed more money, each time resulting in hyperinflation. It's a form of theft from the working class who can't easily access foreign currency, siphoning the wealth to the rich who can do so. In any event, Argentines prefer strongly to have dollars, to the point where in 2011-2014 or so you could rent an apartment for perhaps 50% the going rate if you paid in hundred dollar American bills (but only the new ones, with the big Franklin). These could simply not be obtained in Argentina anymore. Back in 2002 or so, you could get $100 bills out of an ATM (maximum $200 per day). But in 2011 you either had to be paid directly by the government at the official rate (i.e. triple your salary for 20% of your wages) or you could take a boat to Uruguay and pull out $500 a day. The third way was using Bitcoin and trading with local Argentines on Localbitcoins.com, who would give you the normal US dollar rate for the bitcoins you were selling.
    • gotorazor 4y ago
      I am a bit dense. How does hyperinflation, an artifical peg, and exchange restrictions allow USD currency reserves (presumably held by the government) to flow to those who has freely accessible USD exchange (the patron of the ruling class)? What is the mechanism that would facilitate this? (Also, I think I disagree with everything you have said in the thread so far. But, this is a serious question. I don't follow this argument at all.)
• zorked 4y ago
  I travelled to Argentina around this time and, plane ticket aside, I used Bitcoins for everything. I bought BTC from localbitcoins, travelled there, paid for my stay and some meals in BTC (there was a website that showed restaurants and cafes that accepted it) and exchanged BTC for ARS for the rest of expenses from someone whom I met via localbitcoins there (could be you!). This was peak crypto actually. It was useful, peer-to-peer, actually allowed people to opt out of the monetary system, it felt like a community, there was this sense of excitement. Then all the crypto ICO pump and dumpers with frog avatars came and it was over.
  • capableweb 4y ago
    > Then all the crypto ICO pump and dumpers with frog avatars came and it was over. If cryptocurrency doesn't survive being misused for stuff like that and gets dragged down because of it, then it deserves it. But it seems to be ticking along even despite of that, just like the US Dollar, so the future seems unclear still.
    • largepeepee 4y ago
      BTC had always been a means of avoiding regulations, and that's fine imo, because let's be frank... US regulations are on par with the CCP in execution with stupid rules like double taxation and mandated rules for foreign banks not in their jurisdiction. But they control the loud speakers and have much stronger global enforcement, ie they are the biggest gangsters around so they set the rules.
      • noduerme 4y ago
        The double taxation thing really is a bitch. Not to mention, giving up one's US citizenship triggers the equivalent of an estate tax as if you died. Still, it's a democracy and some people voted for those things; it also doesn't explicitly force people to stop speaking their native language or abandon their religion, or throw people in prison for waving a sign in the street. So I keep my US passport and pay my taxes. The US is one of the few countries in the world where people do collectively have power to make drastic and enduring changes to the system without needing to start a cycle of violence to accomplish their aims.
• keithalewis 4y ago
  Whacky parsed as "meet in prison". At least you will have plenty of time to chat about the pluses and minuses of money laundering!
  • schizo89 4y ago
    Meat in prison, hamburgers on thursdays
  • deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
• globular-toast 4y ago
  This is indeed another nail in the coffin for what we thought Bitcoin was back then. It's really sad how few people seem to understand that Bitcoin was meant to be a replacement for the private banking system. The first system in the world that offered both instant/digital payments without any trusted third party involvement. Many of us understood how important that was back then. Now Bitcoin is synonymous with "investment" and cryptobros who never even dream to question the private banking system they use every day.
  • zirgs 4y ago
    If BTC had a relatively stable price and low inflation then it could challenge the private banking system. But its volatility is only attractive to gamblers and speculators. It's the opposite of a good currency.
    • globular-toast 4y ago
      BTC, by design, is non-inflationary. That's kinda the point. In fact it would be deflationary in practice (which does concern some people). There's nothing inherently volatile about it.
      • zirgs 4y ago
        Nothing stopped them from implementing low inflation into the BTC protocol. Would have driven away all the HODLers immediately.
• dalexander28 4y ago
  I was there around the same time, I remember selling dollars on Florida street in BA and hearing the news about bitcoin on the street. Thanks for bringing back that memory :)
• idlewords 4y ago
  What better way to trade valuable bearer tokens than by meeting strangers off the internet!