4 ms·

Also, Supreme Allied Commander Europe is General Cavoli. Stoltenberg is Secretary General of NATO. The former is what most people would call the "supreme comman

Also, Supreme Allied Commander Europe is General Cavoli. Stoltenberg is Secretary General of NATO. The former is what most people would call the "supreme commander" since has military operational command. He is American so immediately suspect. In between there is Chair of the NATO Military Committee, who is Dutch admiral.

reducesuffering 4y ago
Yep. Gell Mann Amnesia in full effect here. Everything you two have said are basic geopolitical knowledge blunders and it's clear Hersh has lost his intellectual bearing the last decade as he's now 85... Hersh: "Today, the supreme commander of NATO is Jens Stoltenberg" Reality: Jens Stoltenberg is the secretary general of NATO. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_Allied_Commander_Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_Allied_Commander_Europ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jens_Stoltenberg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jens_Stoltenberg
- kubectl_h 4y ago
  This is a mistaken title attribution, but even with a correction do you think it changes much? Stoltenberg is the civilian leader of NATO and having his support is crucial. Hersh may have been mistaken in the title, but not the person nor their importance.
  - reducesuffering 4y ago
    It actually means a lot. Hersh is basing the entire story off one anonymous source. For such a serious implication, he’s unable to even do due diligence on basic verifiable facts. That buries the lede on how much verification he competently did for his source.
    - kubectl_h 4y ago
      It doesn't really. It's the kind of thing that could slip by fact checkers at plenty of publications and result in a fairly innocuous correction.
      - mannerheim 4y ago
        A single mistake, maybe. An entire paragraph where every single sentence consists of a separate claim that is either outright wrong or unsupported by any evidence? Well, maybe it is par for the course for modern journalism after all.
  - mannerheim 4y ago
    I mean, he also claims Stoltenberg collaborated with American intelligence during Vietnam at the tender age of 16 given his birth date and the end of the war. The whole paragraph is just completely wrong.
    - kubectl_h 4y ago
      Why is it impossible that he hasn't cooperated with American intelligence since the Vietnam war -- a quick cursory search of his name and Vietnam yield many press release type new clippings that he was quite active in protests during that war -- protests that led to the jailing of his friend but conveniently not him...
      - mannerheim 4y ago
        The idea that the CIA recruited a teenager to infiltrate a group of Norwegian activists for throwing rocks at the American embassy is the silliest thing I've ever heard of. If he had been arrested, I'm sure you'd be saying that was proof he cut a deal with the authorities for lenience in his punishment for petty vandalism.
        kubectl_h 4y ago
        I didn't say the CIA recruited him to infiltrate anything. No one is saying he's a secret agent. I'm just saying it's possible that there is a history of cooperation of some form or another since he was a young activist and through an extraordinary career, which has led him to be "trusted completely since." I don't believe it because I don't know, but I don't think it's insane to consider or that the existence of a relationship is impossible on face value because he was merely a young activist in the 70s.
        mannerheim 4y ago
        Is there any evidence at all of this sort of 'history of cooperation'?

reducesuffering 4y ago

Yep. Gell Mann Amnesia in full effect here. Everything you two have said are basic geopolitical knowledge blunders and it's clear Hersh has lost his intellectual bearing the last decade as he's now 85... Hersh: "Today, the supreme commander of NATO is Jens Stoltenberg" Reality: Jens Stoltenberg is the secretary general of NATO. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_Allied_Commander_Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_Allied_Commander_Europ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jens_Stoltenberg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jens_Stoltenberg

kubectl_h 4y ago
This is a mistaken title attribution, but even with a correction do you think it changes much? Stoltenberg is the civilian leader of NATO and having his support is crucial. Hersh may have been mistaken in the title, but not the person nor their importance.
- reducesuffering 4y ago
  It actually means a lot. Hersh is basing the entire story off one anonymous source. For such a serious implication, he’s unable to even do due diligence on basic verifiable facts. That buries the lede on how much verification he competently did for his source.
  - kubectl_h 4y ago
    It doesn't really. It's the kind of thing that could slip by fact checkers at plenty of publications and result in a fairly innocuous correction.
    - mannerheim 4y ago
      A single mistake, maybe. An entire paragraph where every single sentence consists of a separate claim that is either outright wrong or unsupported by any evidence? Well, maybe it is par for the course for modern journalism after all.
- mannerheim 4y ago
  I mean, he also claims Stoltenberg collaborated with American intelligence during Vietnam at the tender age of 16 given his birth date and the end of the war. The whole paragraph is just completely wrong.
  - kubectl_h 4y ago
    Why is it impossible that he hasn't cooperated with American intelligence since the Vietnam war -- a quick cursory search of his name and Vietnam yield many press release type new clippings that he was quite active in protests during that war -- protests that led to the jailing of his friend but conveniently not him...
    - mannerheim 4y ago
      The idea that the CIA recruited a teenager to infiltrate a group of Norwegian activists for throwing rocks at the American embassy is the silliest thing I've ever heard of. If he had been arrested, I'm sure you'd be saying that was proof he cut a deal with the authorities for lenience in his punishment for petty vandalism.
      - kubectl_h 4y ago
        I didn't say the CIA recruited him to infiltrate anything. No one is saying he's a secret agent. I'm just saying it's possible that there is a history of cooperation of some form or another since he was a young activist and through an extraordinary career, which has led him to be "trusted completely since." I don't believe it because I don't know, but I don't think it's insane to consider or that the existence of a relationship is impossible on face value because he was merely a young activist in the 70s.
        mannerheim 4y ago
        Is there any evidence at all of this sort of 'history of cooperation'?