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>Dan can in fact run amok on HN. I don't believe there are significant pressures from YC on how Dan structures moderation here. I'm sorry but this is absurd.

>Dan can in fact run amok on HN. I don't believe there are significant pressures from YC on how Dan structures moderation here. I'm sorry but this is absurd. If dang had a mental break and decided only cat picture posts were allowed going forward, there would definitely be a conversation. It being hands-off so far means that YC and dang have current consensus and trust exists.

tptacek 4y ago
The trust between YC and Dan regarding HN is probably the whole story about moderation here. Again: people think YC exerts a bunch of influence in how HN is moderated, and I doubt it exerts much influence at all. Dan is running this place the way he'd run it if YC didn't exist.
- operatingthetan 4y ago
  I'm not sure why you're belaboring the point because whether it's trust or a contractual agreement to run the site a certain way the result is the same. Either way works for my argument which was that the relationship is the difference from reddit's way. I don't care how the relationship is mediated.
  - tptacek 4y ago
    About the most interesting thing you can say about YC's "vested interest" is that they have a vested interest in having HN continue to be moderated at Dan's total discretion. That interest would change, obviously, if Dan was raptured. But discussing the possibility of Dan's rapturing is not interesting, curious, or productive: we're not talking about the failure modes of moderation when moderators are incapacitated, we're talking about moderatorial discretion.
    - operatingthetan 4y ago
      [flagged]
    - johnnyanmac 4y ago
      >we're not talking about the failure modes of moderation when moderators are incapacitated, we're talking about moderatorial discretion. I saw the conversation as one about the structure of moderation. Paying a mod that you meet with every week to sync up with is very different from someone making some small sub themselves and enaccting any rules that don't break the sitewide rules. Likewise, a mod has no vested interest in the site nor its policies. That mod-admin relationship is special on reddit, in a mostly bad way since admins ignore many mod issues. Dang is more like a moderator and an admin rolled into one.
- searealist 4y ago
  Then explain why yummyfajitas was banned. Pressure from above.
  - tptacek 4y ago
    He was banned for trolling after being repeatedly warned to stop. I have no idea why you thought that was "pressure from above". But there are people who think any ban on HN is an insidious plot by YC, so it's not worth arguing.
    - searealist 4y ago
      yummyfajitas was 95 percentile for sincerity on this site. Calling him a troll is just easy.
      - tptacek 4y ago
        His whole comment history and the warnings he received are right there for everybody to read. But, no, I'm sure you're right: it's all an elaborate plot, because BayesianWitch threatened to upend the YC hegemony.
        searealist 4y ago
        He had no warnings for ages, then every comment was a warning. Obvious pressure from above for having an unpopular ideology.
        altairprime 4y ago
        Being courteous, thoughtful, and taking best-faith interpretations are key aspects of the ideology that is mandatory under this site’s guidelines. This is a wildly unpopular ideology at other sites. If a user or mod noticed them breaking those guidelines over time, and they continued doing so after being repeatedly warned, then they absolutely would have been banned for their ideology. Otherwise, I don’t think anyone really cares how disagreeable their viewpoint is, so long as they’re courteous and contributing while expressing it (and it’s not derogatory, hate speech, etc).
mistermann 4y ago
> It being hands-off so far means that YC and dang have current consensus and trust exists. But this is the very point of contention, and is not actually known.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

tptacek 4y ago

The trust between YC and Dan regarding HN is probably the whole story about moderation here. Again: people think YC exerts a bunch of influence in how HN is moderated, and I doubt it exerts much influence at all. Dan is running this place the way he'd run it if YC didn't exist.

operatingthetan 4y ago
I'm not sure why you're belaboring the point because whether it's trust or a contractual agreement to run the site a certain way the result is the same. Either way works for my argument which was that the relationship is the difference from reddit's way. I don't care how the relationship is mediated.
- tptacek 4y ago
  About the most interesting thing you can say about YC's "vested interest" is that they have a vested interest in having HN continue to be moderated at Dan's total discretion. That interest would change, obviously, if Dan was raptured. But discussing the possibility of Dan's rapturing is not interesting, curious, or productive: we're not talking about the failure modes of moderation when moderators are incapacitated, we're talking about moderatorial discretion.
  - operatingthetan 4y ago
    [flagged]
  - johnnyanmac 4y ago
    >we're not talking about the failure modes of moderation when moderators are incapacitated, we're talking about moderatorial discretion. I saw the conversation as one about the structure of moderation. Paying a mod that you meet with every week to sync up with is very different from someone making some small sub themselves and enaccting any rules that don't break the sitewide rules. Likewise, a mod has no vested interest in the site nor its policies. That mod-admin relationship is special on reddit, in a mostly bad way since admins ignore many mod issues. Dang is more like a moderator and an admin rolled into one.
searealist 4y ago
Then explain why yummyfajitas was banned. Pressure from above.
- tptacek 4y ago
  He was banned for trolling after being repeatedly warned to stop. I have no idea why you thought that was "pressure from above". But there are people who think any ban on HN is an insidious plot by YC, so it's not worth arguing.
  - searealist 4y ago
    yummyfajitas was 95 percentile for sincerity on this site. Calling him a troll is just easy.
    - tptacek 4y ago
      His whole comment history and the warnings he received are right there for everybody to read. But, no, I'm sure you're right: it's all an elaborate plot, because BayesianWitch threatened to upend the YC hegemony.
      - searealist 4y ago
        He had no warnings for ages, then every comment was a warning. Obvious pressure from above for having an unpopular ideology.
        altairprime 4y ago
        Being courteous, thoughtful, and taking best-faith interpretations are key aspects of the ideology that is mandatory under this site’s guidelines. This is a wildly unpopular ideology at other sites. If a user or mod noticed them breaking those guidelines over time, and they continued doing so after being repeatedly warned, then they absolutely would have been banned for their ideology. Otherwise, I don’t think anyone really cares how disagreeable their viewpoint is, so long as they’re courteous and contributing while expressing it (and it’s not derogatory, hate speech, etc).

mistermann 4y ago

> It being hands-off so far means that YC and dang have current consensus and trust exists. But this is the very point of contention, and is not actually known.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]