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>No, it's run by a few humans. Dang is employed by HN. >That's not why reddit is different. It's because a lot of the humans that run the subreddits are incon

>No, it's run by a few humans. Dang is employed by HN. >That's not why reddit is different. It's because a lot of the humans that run the subreddits are inconsistent. You're disagreeing and then saying something that isn't appreciably different.

tptacek 4y ago
Dan is HN. The analogy to a subreddit is good; Dan has in fact much more control over HN than a moderator does of a subreddit.
- operatingthetan 4y ago
  YC has a vested interest in keeping the HN moderation a certain way, it bring a certain quality to the discourse but it's different than the structure of any sub. Dang has a direct relationship with the owners of the site and responsibility to them, that relationship doesn't exist in any way on reddit. The mods run amok. Suggesting HN is effectively just another subreddit dismisses several important differences.
  - tptacek 4y ago
    No, I don't think that's how HN works at all. Dan can in fact run amok on HN. I don't believe there are significant pressures from YC on how Dan structures moderation here. People unfamiliar with the setup here tend to think about YC first when they think about its management, but they should think about Dan first. My understanding is that things are pretty hands-off; even the perks that YC companies get here are, I believe, pretty much things Dan decided to give them.
    - operatingthetan 4y ago
      >Dan can in fact run amok on HN. I don't believe there are significant pressures from YC on how Dan structures moderation here. I'm sorry but this is absurd. If dang had a mental break and decided only cat picture posts were allowed going forward, there would definitely be a conversation. It being hands-off so far means that YC and dang have current consensus and trust exists.
      - tptacek 4y ago
        The trust between YC and Dan regarding HN is probably the whole story about moderation here. Again: people think YC exerts a bunch of influence in how HN is moderated, and I doubt it exerts much influence at all. Dan is running this place the way he'd run it if YC didn't exist.
        operatingthetan 4y ago
        I'm not sure why you're belaboring the point because whether it's trust or a contractual agreement to run the site a certain way the result is the same. Either way works for my argument which was that the relationship is the difference from reddit's way. I don't care how the relationship is mediated.
        tptacek 4y ago
        About the most interesting thing you can say about YC's "vested interest" is that they have a vested interest in having HN continue to be moderated at Dan's total discretion. That interest would change, obviously, if Dan was raptured. But discussing the possibility of Dan's rapturing is not interesting, curious, or productive: we're not talking about the failure modes of moderation when moderators are incapacitated, we're talking about moderatorial discretion.
        operatingthetan 4y ago
        [flagged]
        johnnyanmac 4y ago
        >we're not talking about the failure modes of moderation when moderators are incapacitated, we're talking about moderatorial discretion. I saw the conversation as one about the structure of moderation. Paying a mod that you meet with every week to sync up with is very different from someone making some small sub themselves and enaccting any rules that don't break the sitewide rules. Likewise, a mod has no vested interest in the site nor its policies. That mod-admin relationship is special on reddit, in a mostly bad way since admins ignore many mod issues. Dang is more like a moderator and an admin rolled into one.
    - lmm 4y ago
      The fact of being an HN employee means that Dan has a sword of Damocles above his head the whole time. Whether or not YC are actually calling him up day-to-day and telling him to do X or Y is irrelevant; he's smart enough to figure out what X and Y are and do them pre-emptively, and he knows his livelihood depends on it.
      - operatingthetan 4y ago
        Exactly, I'm so confused why people are speculating that dang is the only employee in the world not subject to a performance review. If someone is paying you, they have a stake in your work.
      - tptacek 4y ago
        No it doesn't. In fact, if I had to guess, the power dynamic probably goes the other way.
numpad0 4y ago
Dang might be well-intended kind dictator, but he’s no machine. He’s just a very thoughtful and kind person with human limits and capacities.
- tough 4y ago
  DanGPT won't have those limitations
  - goatlover 4y ago
    What about when DanGPT hallucinates a violation?
    - TeMPOraL 4y ago
      Email chathn@ycombinator.com to report DanGPT is having a trip.
- OrvalWintermute 4y ago
  Dang is a member of a specific community. Consequently, even if well intentioned, he is likely to share their cognitive biases and perspectives. I think this is why we won't have great transparency around banning, shadowbanning, or a check on the censorious power of flagging.
  - NotPractical 4y ago
    I imagine that (thoughtfully) moderating a site as large as HN is no easy task, and though I'm all for more transparency, I think logs like that have the potential to open a whole can of worms and add much more burden on Dan. All of a sudden you get a bunch of HN posts that solely exist to criticize Dan's decisions which clog up the feed. If a rule is added against this it looks like even more censorship. Lobsters [1] has mod logs, but it also has a much smaller community, and it's invite-only so there's less need for moderation in the first place. [1] https://lobste.rs/moderations https://lobste.rs/moderations

tptacek 4y ago

Dan is HN. The analogy to a subreddit is good; Dan has in fact much more control over HN than a moderator does of a subreddit.

operatingthetan 4y ago
YC has a vested interest in keeping the HN moderation a certain way, it bring a certain quality to the discourse but it's different than the structure of any sub. Dang has a direct relationship with the owners of the site and responsibility to them, that relationship doesn't exist in any way on reddit. The mods run amok. Suggesting HN is effectively just another subreddit dismisses several important differences.
- tptacek 4y ago
  No, I don't think that's how HN works at all. Dan can in fact run amok on HN. I don't believe there are significant pressures from YC on how Dan structures moderation here. People unfamiliar with the setup here tend to think about YC first when they think about its management, but they should think about Dan first. My understanding is that things are pretty hands-off; even the perks that YC companies get here are, I believe, pretty much things Dan decided to give them.
  - operatingthetan 4y ago
    >Dan can in fact run amok on HN. I don't believe there are significant pressures from YC on how Dan structures moderation here. I'm sorry but this is absurd. If dang had a mental break and decided only cat picture posts were allowed going forward, there would definitely be a conversation. It being hands-off so far means that YC and dang have current consensus and trust exists.
    - tptacek 4y ago
      The trust between YC and Dan regarding HN is probably the whole story about moderation here. Again: people think YC exerts a bunch of influence in how HN is moderated, and I doubt it exerts much influence at all. Dan is running this place the way he'd run it if YC didn't exist.
      - operatingthetan 4y ago
        I'm not sure why you're belaboring the point because whether it's trust or a contractual agreement to run the site a certain way the result is the same. Either way works for my argument which was that the relationship is the difference from reddit's way. I don't care how the relationship is mediated.
        tptacek 4y ago
        About the most interesting thing you can say about YC's "vested interest" is that they have a vested interest in having HN continue to be moderated at Dan's total discretion. That interest would change, obviously, if Dan was raptured. But discussing the possibility of Dan's rapturing is not interesting, curious, or productive: we're not talking about the failure modes of moderation when moderators are incapacitated, we're talking about moderatorial discretion.
        operatingthetan 4y ago
        [flagged]
        johnnyanmac 4y ago
        >we're not talking about the failure modes of moderation when moderators are incapacitated, we're talking about moderatorial discretion. I saw the conversation as one about the structure of moderation. Paying a mod that you meet with every week to sync up with is very different from someone making some small sub themselves and enaccting any rules that don't break the sitewide rules. Likewise, a mod has no vested interest in the site nor its policies. That mod-admin relationship is special on reddit, in a mostly bad way since admins ignore many mod issues. Dang is more like a moderator and an admin rolled into one.
  - lmm 4y ago
    The fact of being an HN employee means that Dan has a sword of Damocles above his head the whole time. Whether or not YC are actually calling him up day-to-day and telling him to do X or Y is irrelevant; he's smart enough to figure out what X and Y are and do them pre-emptively, and he knows his livelihood depends on it.
    - operatingthetan 4y ago
      Exactly, I'm so confused why people are speculating that dang is the only employee in the world not subject to a performance review. If someone is paying you, they have a stake in your work.
    - tptacek 4y ago
      No it doesn't. In fact, if I had to guess, the power dynamic probably goes the other way.

numpad0 4y ago

Dang might be well-intended kind dictator, but he’s no machine. He’s just a very thoughtful and kind person with human limits and capacities.

tough 4y ago
DanGPT won't have those limitations
- goatlover 4y ago
  What about when DanGPT hallucinates a violation?
  - TeMPOraL 4y ago
    Email chathn@ycombinator.com to report DanGPT is having a trip.
OrvalWintermute 4y ago
Dang is a member of a specific community. Consequently, even if well intentioned, he is likely to share their cognitive biases and perspectives. I think this is why we won't have great transparency around banning, shadowbanning, or a check on the censorious power of flagging.
- NotPractical 4y ago
  I imagine that (thoughtfully) moderating a site as large as HN is no easy task, and though I'm all for more transparency, I think logs like that have the potential to open a whole can of worms and add much more burden on Dan. All of a sudden you get a bunch of HN posts that solely exist to criticize Dan's decisions which clog up the feed. If a rule is added against this it looks like even more censorship. Lobsters [1] has mod logs, but it also has a much smaller community, and it's invite-only so there's less need for moderation in the first place. [1] https://lobste.rs/moderations https://lobste.rs/moderations