3 ms·

Here are some related things I managed to find: * Gov. Newsom banned remedial classes being taught at community colleges. * Conversion Therapy has been banned

Here are some related things I managed to find: * Gov. Newsom banned remedial classes being taught at community colleges. * Conversion Therapy has been banned and attempted to be banned by many states in particular in public schools. * Bibles being banned by school districts. This isn't a defense of Ron Desantis or any of those things. I'm not convinced Ron Desantis is the only governor that would ban books. If it's politically expedient to ban content, that's what happens in a democracy. I am not in favor of book bans but I very much doubt the defense of principles. The same people complaining about book bans would absolutely ban books if objectionable political content were being pushed on children from the other direction. Or alternatively what is the principled defense of things like the Dept. of Ed. promoting the discredited 1619 Project?

Forgeties79 4y ago
> Conversion Therapy has been banned and attempted to be banned by many states in particular in public schools. Conversion therapy is abuse. > Gov. Newsom banned remedial classes being taught at community colleges. You need to be more specific. Do you have a source?
- onetimeusename 4y ago
  > Conversion Therapy is abuse. This is exactly what a lot of supporters of Desantis would probably say about gender affirmation care for people with gender dysphoria. My point here is it just seems unlikely Desantis is the only governor that would ban books in schools. Conversion therapy is illegal in multiple states so putting those books in a student library would break the law so one might call that a ban. I would be shocked if you could convince me there is a governor who would always decline to sign bills that ban material from schools.
  - Forgeties79 4y ago
    >This is exactly what a lot of supporters of Desantis would probably say about gender affirmation care for people with gender dysphoria. And? It's an ongoing debate that even I am unsure about and perhaps maybe they'll be vindicated one day. But conversion therapy is categorically abuse today. And for good reason. >I would be shocked if you could convince me there is a governor who would always decline to sign bills that ban material from schools. That's not really how it works. You need to provide evidence of Democrat governors banning books at the state level a la DeSantis and Abbott. I can't prove what they wouldn't do because the situation is theoretical.
    - onetimeusename 4y ago
      I gave examples of bans, the rest is politics, as I said. If you really were opposed to political book bans, which you aren't, you wouldn't be open to all sorts of unspeakable things being included in public schools.
      - Forgeties79 4y ago
        >I gave examples of bans This is all you wrote: * Gov. Newsom banned remedial classes being taught at community colleges. - not banned books and I explained the issues with your claim in another comment. * Conversion Therapy has been banned and attempted to be banned by many states in particular in public schools. - not about banned books * Bibles being banned by school districts. - I found one example of a technical battle in one school district in Texas which seems to be more about the larger message/battle over the written law in Texas. Besides this weird case I see no others. Do you have any sources or examples? Aside from that one weird case I've found (which isn't a democrat or a governor banning books mind you it's a local matter over technicalities), I've seen no citations or specific claims of any kind.
        onetimeusename 4y ago
        This law https://www.ilga.gov/legislation/fulltext.asp?DocName=&SessionId=88&GA=99&DocTypeId=HB&DocNum=217&GAID=13&LegID=&SpecSess=&Session= https://www.ilga.gov/legislation/fulltext.asp?DocName=&Sessi... bans conversion therapy material in schools by guidance counselors. That state also established a policy for the mandatory sex education curriculum recently. It bans conversion therapy material being taught because it is not evidence based or inclusive. There's a lot of states that have banned it besides that one. Do I care? no, not particularly. This is the Florida "book ban" law which is actually an "instructional material" ban. https://myfloridahouse.gov/Sections/Documents/loaddoc.aspx?FileName=_h1467er.docx&DocumentType=Bill&BillNumber=1467&Session=2022 https://myfloridahouse.gov/Sections/Documents/loaddoc.aspx?F... Not a general book ban which would likely be unconstitutional. The original objection raised here was that the governor is taking powers he doesn't have was it not? Specifics of one state's constitution aside, if a governor of one state can decide what is taught, why can't a governor of another? As I said, banning material or requiring material is something both parties do or would do. I also remembered there is a california school district that banned "To Kill a Mockingbird" recently for racism.
  - Forgeties79 4y ago
    I decided to look into the community college claim. Turns out you're right. Sort of. You left out critical information to make it sound bad at face value. https://edsource.org/updates/newsom-signs-bill-to-ban-most-remedial-classes-at-community-colleges#:~:text=Gavin%20Newsom%20on%20Friday%20signed,remedial%20math%20and%20English%20courses https://edsource.org/updates/newsom-signs-bill-to-ban-most-r.... For starters, remedial courses don't transfer to 4 year universities. Which - coupled with the dead end nature of them - seemed to be a serious impediment for students. Here are some other interesting tidbits: >AB 1705 builds off a 2017 law, Assembly Bill 705, that said colleges can’t place students in remedial classes unless they are deemed highly unlikely to succeed in transfer-level coursework. That bill was brought forward amid research showing that students who took remedial math and English classes often got stuck in those classes and were less likely to finish their degrees. >The latest bill goes further by limiting colleges to enrolling only certain populations of students in remedial classes, such as English learners and students in some career and technical education programs. It also leaves room for colleges to enroll other students in remedial classes if the colleges can prove, based on a student’s high school grades, that the student is more likely to earn a degree or certificate by starting in the pre-transfer classes. Sounds like we should be applauding an attempted overhaul of community colleges in california to me.

Forgeties79 4y ago

> Conversion Therapy has been banned and attempted to be banned by many states in particular in public schools. Conversion therapy is abuse. > Gov. Newsom banned remedial classes being taught at community colleges. You need to be more specific. Do you have a source?

onetimeusename 4y ago
> Conversion Therapy is abuse. This is exactly what a lot of supporters of Desantis would probably say about gender affirmation care for people with gender dysphoria. My point here is it just seems unlikely Desantis is the only governor that would ban books in schools. Conversion therapy is illegal in multiple states so putting those books in a student library would break the law so one might call that a ban. I would be shocked if you could convince me there is a governor who would always decline to sign bills that ban material from schools.
- Forgeties79 4y ago
  >This is exactly what a lot of supporters of Desantis would probably say about gender affirmation care for people with gender dysphoria. And? It's an ongoing debate that even I am unsure about and perhaps maybe they'll be vindicated one day. But conversion therapy is categorically abuse today. And for good reason. >I would be shocked if you could convince me there is a governor who would always decline to sign bills that ban material from schools. That's not really how it works. You need to provide evidence of Democrat governors banning books at the state level a la DeSantis and Abbott. I can't prove what they wouldn't do because the situation is theoretical.
  - onetimeusename 4y ago
    I gave examples of bans, the rest is politics, as I said. If you really were opposed to political book bans, which you aren't, you wouldn't be open to all sorts of unspeakable things being included in public schools.
    - Forgeties79 4y ago
      >I gave examples of bans This is all you wrote: * Gov. Newsom banned remedial classes being taught at community colleges. - not banned books and I explained the issues with your claim in another comment. * Conversion Therapy has been banned and attempted to be banned by many states in particular in public schools. - not about banned books * Bibles being banned by school districts. - I found one example of a technical battle in one school district in Texas which seems to be more about the larger message/battle over the written law in Texas. Besides this weird case I see no others. Do you have any sources or examples? Aside from that one weird case I've found (which isn't a democrat or a governor banning books mind you it's a local matter over technicalities), I've seen no citations or specific claims of any kind.
      - onetimeusename 4y ago
        This law https://www.ilga.gov/legislation/fulltext.asp?DocName=&SessionId=88&GA=99&DocTypeId=HB&DocNum=217&GAID=13&LegID=&SpecSess=&Session= https://www.ilga.gov/legislation/fulltext.asp?DocName=&Sessi... bans conversion therapy material in schools by guidance counselors. That state also established a policy for the mandatory sex education curriculum recently. It bans conversion therapy material being taught because it is not evidence based or inclusive. There's a lot of states that have banned it besides that one. Do I care? no, not particularly. This is the Florida "book ban" law which is actually an "instructional material" ban. https://myfloridahouse.gov/Sections/Documents/loaddoc.aspx?FileName=_h1467er.docx&DocumentType=Bill&BillNumber=1467&Session=2022 https://myfloridahouse.gov/Sections/Documents/loaddoc.aspx?F... Not a general book ban which would likely be unconstitutional. The original objection raised here was that the governor is taking powers he doesn't have was it not? Specifics of one state's constitution aside, if a governor of one state can decide what is taught, why can't a governor of another? As I said, banning material or requiring material is something both parties do or would do. I also remembered there is a california school district that banned "To Kill a Mockingbird" recently for racism.
- Forgeties79 4y ago
  I decided to look into the community college claim. Turns out you're right. Sort of. You left out critical information to make it sound bad at face value. https://edsource.org/updates/newsom-signs-bill-to-ban-most-remedial-classes-at-community-colleges#:~:text=Gavin%20Newsom%20on%20Friday%20signed,remedial%20math%20and%20English%20courses https://edsource.org/updates/newsom-signs-bill-to-ban-most-r.... For starters, remedial courses don't transfer to 4 year universities. Which - coupled with the dead end nature of them - seemed to be a serious impediment for students. Here are some other interesting tidbits: >AB 1705 builds off a 2017 law, Assembly Bill 705, that said colleges can’t place students in remedial classes unless they are deemed highly unlikely to succeed in transfer-level coursework. That bill was brought forward amid research showing that students who took remedial math and English classes often got stuck in those classes and were less likely to finish their degrees. >The latest bill goes further by limiting colleges to enrolling only certain populations of students in remedial classes, such as English learners and students in some career and technical education programs. It also leaves room for colleges to enroll other students in remedial classes if the colleges can prove, based on a student’s high school grades, that the student is more likely to earn a degree or certificate by starting in the pre-transfer classes. Sounds like we should be applauding an attempted overhaul of community colleges in california to me.