5 ms·

Can we stop with the term "public-owned"? These aren't publicly traded companies (that anyone from the public can buy a stake into) but state-owned and operated

Can we stop with the term "public-owned"? These aren't publicly traded companies (that anyone from the public can buy a stake into) but state-owned and operated broadcasters. Now, as to their objectives, I have no faith that these state media can or will be able to create spaces where the first amendment is preserved considering their poor track-record in the matter. [0] [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29783996 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29783996

nicbou 4y ago
ZDF is not state-owned. It's an independent non-profit institution financed in part by the non-government TV tax.
- LarryMullins 4y ago
  "Non-government tax" is bullshit semantics. Any random organization cannot collect a tax unless a government has delegated special authority to that organization, thereby making that organization part of government. It's like saying "independent courts" aren't part of "the government" because the courts are "independent" and because elected politicians don't have the official authority to tell judges how cases should be decided. Semantics. The courts are a branch of government.
  - quink 4y ago
    No it isn't. It means that the government doesn't control the funding (or lack of funding) for a public broadcaster. That's an important part of their independence. Also, it's not really a tax, it's a levy or fee.
    - skipkey 4y ago
      What happens if someone doesn’t pay the fee?
      - everybodyknows 4y ago
        > Some people went to jail because they refused to pay. https://allaboutberlin.com/guides/gez-rundfunkbeitrag https://allaboutberlin.com/guides/gez-rundfunkbeitrag
    - Mountain_Skies 4y ago
      No, that absolutely is a tax.
      - germanier 4y ago
        That's basically a language/cultural issue - in some places the semantics of the word "tax" are more narrowly defined than in others leading to discussions like these.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - germanier 4y ago
    That's like saying anyone who owns property is a "part of the government" because "the government" has granted them special authority to enforce their property rights. In Germany, the right of those broadcasters to collect that fee is derived directly from the constitution, just like the right to own property is.
    - LarryMullins 4y ago
      In a system where private property ownership is only specially delegated to a handful of people or organizations, those few privileged people or orgs ARE part of the government. In a system where everybody has that right by default, that's different. An ostensibly independent organization that has been granted a special right to collect a tax is an example of the former, not the latter.
quink 4y ago
SRG SSR is not in any sense owned or operated by the Swiss Confederation or any Swiss canton.
floren 4y ago
Well, none of these state broadcasters are actually in the US, so they don't have to worry about the first amendment :) But I do take your meaning.

nicbou 4y ago

ZDF is not state-owned. It's an independent non-profit institution financed in part by the non-government TV tax.

LarryMullins 4y ago
"Non-government tax" is bullshit semantics. Any random organization cannot collect a tax unless a government has delegated special authority to that organization, thereby making that organization part of government. It's like saying "independent courts" aren't part of "the government" because the courts are "independent" and because elected politicians don't have the official authority to tell judges how cases should be decided. Semantics. The courts are a branch of government.
- quink 4y ago
  No it isn't. It means that the government doesn't control the funding (or lack of funding) for a public broadcaster. That's an important part of their independence. Also, it's not really a tax, it's a levy or fee.
  - skipkey 4y ago
    What happens if someone doesn’t pay the fee?
    - everybodyknows 4y ago
      > Some people went to jail because they refused to pay. https://allaboutberlin.com/guides/gez-rundfunkbeitrag https://allaboutberlin.com/guides/gez-rundfunkbeitrag
  - Mountain_Skies 4y ago
    No, that absolutely is a tax.
    - germanier 4y ago
      That's basically a language/cultural issue - in some places the semantics of the word "tax" are more narrowly defined than in others leading to discussions like these.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- germanier 4y ago
  That's like saying anyone who owns property is a "part of the government" because "the government" has granted them special authority to enforce their property rights. In Germany, the right of those broadcasters to collect that fee is derived directly from the constitution, just like the right to own property is.
  - LarryMullins 4y ago
    In a system where private property ownership is only specially delegated to a handful of people or organizations, those few privileged people or orgs ARE part of the government. In a system where everybody has that right by default, that's different. An ostensibly independent organization that has been granted a special right to collect a tax is an example of the former, not the latter.

quink 4y ago

SRG SSR is not in any sense owned or operated by the Swiss Confederation or any Swiss canton.

floren 4y ago

Well, none of these state broadcasters are actually in the US, so they don't have to worry about the first amendment :) But I do take your meaning.