5 ms·

Is there a tried and true instruction to prevent windows 11 from running updater at all? I keep losing sensitive work because of the windows penchant to reboot

Is there a tried and true instruction to prevent windows 11 from running updater at all? I keep losing sensitive work because of the windows penchant to reboot at times when im not at the PC, causing my tabs and docs to be lost. Edit: yes im aware we need security patches but id lile those on demand, not randonly

alar44 4y ago
[flagged]
- codehalo 4y ago
  I think the poster is referring to the loss of desktop state, not necessarily the loss of unsaved documents.
- IG_Semmelweiss 4y ago
  Do you have a PC? Are you aware how user-hostile is Windows to even allowing you to turn on your computer without creating an MSN "account" [0] Are you aware that not every user on HN is a software engineer that is comfortable with changing registry values? Its 2023. Empathize with your user or see your startup go dead without funding
  - alar44 4y ago
    Registry values? It's pretty easy to tell Windows when to do updates. This is nonsense.
    - ihateyouall123 4y ago
      You sound like a person who buys ugly Walmart jeans because they are cheap, efficient and economical and then wonder why no one talks to you.
      - efreak 4y ago
        People who refuse to talk to me based on the looks/branding/cost of my clothing aren't people I care to talk to
  - BLKNSLVR 4y ago
    (Not to whom you're replying) I'm entirely comfortable with configuring my Windows to behave how I want, but over the years the increasing user hostility of Windows has driven me to Linux, such that I only use Windows On a work machine, and I'm reminded almost daily about how good my decision was to make the switch. What I mean is: even those of us who can, are sick of having to.
- bakugo 4y ago
  > your system If you can't disable updates, it's not "your" system.
  - at_a_remove 4y ago
    Note the change from "My Computer" to "This PC." Subtle, isn't it?
smileybarry 4y ago
Under Settings > Accounts > Sign-in Options > enable "Automatically save my restartable apps and restart them when I sign back in". Most apps since Windows 7 register their current documents, workspace, etc. with Windows when they launch, and can then be reopened on next boot with the same context. If they don't support that API, Windows will just remember the command line and relaunch it. I use this for a work computer that I shut down daily and it restores everything I had open: browser windows & tabs, email, Visual Studio solutions, PyCharm workspaces, Windows Explorer windows, Slack, etc. And update restarts use this mechanism specifically.
- IG_Semmelweiss 4y ago
  This is helpful. Thank you. Now here is to hope That the next "fix" from windows does not push an update that consistent blue screens my PC [1] which is why i prefer to reject all patches. [1]https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/windows-keep-blue-screencrash-for-20h2-patch/4d2625c9-77a8-41e7-8270-102bc84bbce3 https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/window...
ThrowawayR2 4y ago
Run the Windows update checker manually on a periodic basis, same as you would on a Linux server, and you will never be caught by forced reboots or patches being downloaded at inconvenient times.
- bakugo 4y ago
  > I don't want to do X but I'm being forced to, how do I avoid this? > Just do X yourself This isn't helpful in the slightest.
  - derefr 4y ago
    ...no? The GP commenter's problem-as-stated isn't that X is being forced on them; their problem is that X is being forced on them when they don't have time to deal with it. The solution is to do it when they do have time, ideally frequently such that only small incremental updates are needed, such that each update cycle doesn't take very long. A.k.a. "if you don't want to get a toothache and have your life interrupted with a 'random' need to visit the dentist, then take a few minutes of your choosing each day to brush your teeth."
    - bakugo 4y ago
      > A.k.a. "if you don't want to get a toothache and have your life interrupted with a 'random' need to visit the dentist, then take a few minutes of your choosing each day to brush your teeth." Microsoft taking control of a computer you bought and paid for remotely to force it to do what they want is in no way comparable to a health issue and I really don't understand what could possibly lead you to believe it is.
      - derefr 4y ago
        When you go to the dentist, the dentist takes control of your mouth and forces it to do what they want. I don't see what's confusing about that. If you think the scope of the loss of control doesn't line up: replace "brushing your teeth" with "watching your blood pressure"; "a toothache" with "a stroke"; "the dentist" with "an ICU doctor"; and "taking control of your mouth" with "taking control of your whole body" (since you're likely under general anesthesia — they've literally taken control of your body away from you to fix the problem.) But, by looking at my analogy as analogizing two fields, I think you missed the point. I was trying to give a general analogy about preventative maintenance tasks you are expected to enact as part of the ownership of a tool; where that tool will eventually 'randomly' break down without said maintenance, effectively forcibly interrupting you to have reactive maintenance done by some external professional at much greater time cost. Your teeth are just one such tool. A different but equivalent analogy would be to changing the oil in your car. If you don't do it, eventually at some 'random' time you'll need to spend a long time at a repair shop because your engine cylinders got grit in them and wore holes large enough to lose stroke pressure. Also, if you mean to suggest that these cases are different because the computer is "choosing" to force the update on you, rather than "requiring" the update in some technical "being broken" sense — it's not like that's uncommon. Many tools and machines — industrial ones, specifically — come with resource and maintenance sensors built into them which will prevent you from operating the machine in a condition where it would begin to require maintenance, to prevent you from accidentally imposing an above-tolerance workload on a system that you presumably want to last a long time. Self-greasing CNC routers will stop running when they run out of grease, rather than trying to operate dry. Etc. If you question why your system "requires maintenance" in the first place — well, this is what I addressed in a sibling comment. If you believe in vaccines, and in herd immunity; and if you understand that, for active threats (computer worms et al), computer networks have virality coefficients just like human populations do; then you should be able to see that the "maintenance" being required here, is for the sake of increasing the herd-immunity of the network by removing your node within it as a potential infection vector, rather than for the sake of your own computer's individual health per se. (Although it is also for the sake of your own computer, insofar as, besides just joining you to a botnet, a worm could also carry a crypto-locker payload or something equally nefarious.) And if you question why Microsoft should be able to force your computer to "get vaccinated", when the government can't force you to do so — well, consider something the government can do: it can prevent you from driving a car that doesn't pass an EPA inspection. Because driving is a privilege, rather than a right. Well, operating your computer isn't a right either. It can come with conditions. (If you, finally, notice that the distinction should actually be "operating your computer on the Internet", similar to "driving your car on the road" — such that operating your computer offline, or driving your car on a private track, shouldn't be something anyone other than you has a say in — well, I'm not going to argue with you there. Computers could certainly have the option to delay a forced restart to install a patch, but to "force you offline" until such time as the [already-downloaded] patch is installed. I think OSes only don't offer that because it'd be terribly confusing for the average grandmother. But it could certainly be something hidden in the most arcane of config flags.)
sccxy 4y ago
Just use "Pause updates for X days". Install updates once a month and Windows does not have to do it "randomly".
bakugo 4y ago
If you have a Pro or Enterprise SKU you should be able to disable automatic updates by messing with Group Policy (Computer Configuration > Administrative Templates > Windows Components > Windows Update). Changing the "configure automatic updates" policy should be enough but you might have to change others, just go through them and read the descriptions.
andai 4y ago
I recently used Privatezilla to disable automatic updates. Not sure if the same approach works on Windows 11, but you might find the relevant registry keys mentioned in the code helpful: https://github.com/builtbybel/privatezilla/blob/master/src/Privatezilla/Settings/Updates/DisableUpdates.cs https://github.com/builtbybel/privatezilla/blob/master/src/P...
eastbound 4y ago
> Is there a tried and true instruction to (…)? I keep losing sensitive work because of the Windows penchant 2023, the year of Linux on the desktop ?
derefr 4y ago
There are "active" threat classes (worms, and human attackers explicitly running intrusion exploits) that can infect your computer while it is sitting idle, you know. What would you prefer: coming back to find your computer has joined a botnet while you were gone; or coming back to find your computer was restarted while you were gone, to avoid joining a botnet?
- jacquesm 4y ago
  I would prefer to find it as I left it. And in 45 years of using computers this has always been the case. But then againg, I haven't used windows in more than two decades now, other than a single box here that talks to an older mixer and that machine doesn't even have an internet connection, I treat it as part of the mixer.
  - derefr 4y ago
    > And in 45 years of using computers this has always been the case Yes, because you presumably do your computing mostly behind some kind of NAT most of the time, and without any un-patched devices hanging out on the same LAN segment, and so there's no path for worms to have ever reached you by. That's not necessary true for the average computer user, though, who connects to shared wired or wireless networks at an office/coworking space/internet cafe/university campus/etc. Those that do this may end up with either/both of 1. a public-routable (usually IPv6) address for bots and worms to talk to, and 2. a link on a multicast-routable subnet with other already-infected devices. Also, a few years after you stopped using Windows, cryptocurrency was invented, which "changed the game" for cybercriminals in a lot of ways. Fun, meaningless, low-penetration cyberthreats don't exist any more; as "hacking groups" are now motivated by "real money" to get root on every PC they can so they can deploy crypto-miner background services, encrypt files and hold them for (cryptocurrency) ransom, exfiltrate the user's own crypto-wallet private keys, etc.
layer8 4y ago
Did you try Reboot Blocker [0]? It works by constantly rotating the Active Hours configuration so that the current time is always within active hours, thus delaying Windows Update restarts indefinitely. It works reliably on Windows 10, but I couldn’t find confirmation for Windows 11. [0] https://udse.de/reboot-blocker/ https://udse.de/reboot-blocker/
- IG_Semmelweiss 4y ago
  Oh this is a very creative solution. I will try to find a WIN 11 version - thank you so much!
kens 4y ago
Forced Windows updates caused me no end of problems too. I'd run a simulation overnight and discover Windows had rebooted on its own and I lost all my results. Or I wanted to show a movie at a birthday party but Windows decided it had to spend an hour updating. I followed various instructions to disable automatic updates, and I'm someone who generally keeps things up to date, but after the third time of Windows updates ruining things, I gave up and switched to a MacBook. With Windows it seems like updating is its primary task and running applications is secondary to. There's probably someone at Microsoft who shows weekly graphs of Windows updates, and their bonus depends on the graph continuing up and to the right, so they ram through whatever update features are necessary without thinking of the customer experience.
- goldfeld 4y ago
  You see, it's Microsoft's point of view that no longer we own a system and are the administrative users of it, but Microsoft by its ClippyAI uses us as a system for their needs and they are the administrative users of their lowly subjects. The fact that you watch videos, open programs and earn a living and lay out files on the PC is merely collateral, they see it's a necessary accident to keep you on the line and plug into your essence to try to drain it. Let's repurpose PC to mean either Piece of Crap or Post-Computers depending on how we react to the new establishment.
vmoore 4y ago
> Is there a tried and true instruction to prevent windows 11 from running updater at all? Check out this: https://www.sordum.org/9470/windows-update-blocker-v1-7/ https://www.sordum.org/9470/windows-update-blocker-v1-7/
- IG_Semmelweiss 4y ago
  I'm going to try this. Looks easy enough to implement. I'm leaving the PC on all night tonight. Genuinely curious if this will result in a successful block, a failed block....or a BSOD ? I'll report back. Crossing fingers - Thanks you!
wishfish 4y ago
I haven't used 11 yet. When I was on 10, there was a group policy that would prevent automatic updates & restarts. The OS would check regularly for updates but wouldn't automatically download them. If this is still available in 11, that's your best solution.
- t0bia_s 4y ago
  simplewall let you completely block connection to update servers. https://www.henrypp.org/product/simplewall https://www.henrypp.org/product/simplewall Also it is probably best opensource firewall for Windows out there. Portmaster from Stafin has similar approach but not good for managing firewall rules.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

alar44 4y ago

[flagged]

codehalo 4y ago
I think the poster is referring to the loss of desktop state, not necessarily the loss of unsaved documents.
IG_Semmelweiss 4y ago
Do you have a PC? Are you aware how user-hostile is Windows to even allowing you to turn on your computer without creating an MSN "account" [0] Are you aware that not every user on HN is a software engineer that is comfortable with changing registry values? Its 2023. Empathize with your user or see your startup go dead without funding
- alar44 4y ago
  Registry values? It's pretty easy to tell Windows when to do updates. This is nonsense.
  - ihateyouall123 4y ago
    You sound like a person who buys ugly Walmart jeans because they are cheap, efficient and economical and then wonder why no one talks to you.
    - efreak 4y ago
      People who refuse to talk to me based on the looks/branding/cost of my clothing aren't people I care to talk to
- BLKNSLVR 4y ago
  (Not to whom you're replying) I'm entirely comfortable with configuring my Windows to behave how I want, but over the years the increasing user hostility of Windows has driven me to Linux, such that I only use Windows On a work machine, and I'm reminded almost daily about how good my decision was to make the switch. What I mean is: even those of us who can, are sick of having to.
bakugo 4y ago
> your system If you can't disable updates, it's not "your" system.
- at_a_remove 4y ago
  Note the change from "My Computer" to "This PC." Subtle, isn't it?

smileybarry 4y ago

Under Settings > Accounts > Sign-in Options > enable "Automatically save my restartable apps and restart them when I sign back in". Most apps since Windows 7 register their current documents, workspace, etc. with Windows when they launch, and can then be reopened on next boot with the same context. If they don't support that API, Windows will just remember the command line and relaunch it. I use this for a work computer that I shut down daily and it restores everything I had open: browser windows & tabs, email, Visual Studio solutions, PyCharm workspaces, Windows Explorer windows, Slack, etc. And update restarts use this mechanism specifically.

IG_Semmelweiss 4y ago
This is helpful. Thank you. Now here is to hope That the next "fix" from windows does not push an update that consistent blue screens my PC [1] which is why i prefer to reject all patches. [1]https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/windows-keep-blue-screencrash-for-20h2-patch/4d2625c9-77a8-41e7-8270-102bc84bbce3 https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/window...

ThrowawayR2 4y ago

Run the Windows update checker manually on a periodic basis, same as you would on a Linux server, and you will never be caught by forced reboots or patches being downloaded at inconvenient times.

bakugo 4y ago
> I don't want to do X but I'm being forced to, how do I avoid this? > Just do X yourself This isn't helpful in the slightest.
- derefr 4y ago
  ...no? The GP commenter's problem-as-stated isn't that X is being forced on them; their problem is that X is being forced on them when they don't have time to deal with it. The solution is to do it when they do have time, ideally frequently such that only small incremental updates are needed, such that each update cycle doesn't take very long. A.k.a. "if you don't want to get a toothache and have your life interrupted with a 'random' need to visit the dentist, then take a few minutes of your choosing each day to brush your teeth."
  - bakugo 4y ago
    > A.k.a. "if you don't want to get a toothache and have your life interrupted with a 'random' need to visit the dentist, then take a few minutes of your choosing each day to brush your teeth." Microsoft taking control of a computer you bought and paid for remotely to force it to do what they want is in no way comparable to a health issue and I really don't understand what could possibly lead you to believe it is.
    - derefr 4y ago
      When you go to the dentist, the dentist takes control of your mouth and forces it to do what they want. I don't see what's confusing about that. If you think the scope of the loss of control doesn't line up: replace "brushing your teeth" with "watching your blood pressure"; "a toothache" with "a stroke"; "the dentist" with "an ICU doctor"; and "taking control of your mouth" with "taking control of your whole body" (since you're likely under general anesthesia — they've literally taken control of your body away from you to fix the problem.) But, by looking at my analogy as analogizing two fields, I think you missed the point. I was trying to give a general analogy about preventative maintenance tasks you are expected to enact as part of the ownership of a tool; where that tool will eventually 'randomly' break down without said maintenance, effectively forcibly interrupting you to have reactive maintenance done by some external professional at much greater time cost. Your teeth are just one such tool. A different but equivalent analogy would be to changing the oil in your car. If you don't do it, eventually at some 'random' time you'll need to spend a long time at a repair shop because your engine cylinders got grit in them and wore holes large enough to lose stroke pressure. Also, if you mean to suggest that these cases are different because the computer is "choosing" to force the update on you, rather than "requiring" the update in some technical "being broken" sense — it's not like that's uncommon. Many tools and machines — industrial ones, specifically — come with resource and maintenance sensors built into them which will prevent you from operating the machine in a condition where it would begin to require maintenance, to prevent you from accidentally imposing an above-tolerance workload on a system that you presumably want to last a long time. Self-greasing CNC routers will stop running when they run out of grease, rather than trying to operate dry. Etc. If you question why your system "requires maintenance" in the first place — well, this is what I addressed in a sibling comment. If you believe in vaccines, and in herd immunity; and if you understand that, for active threats (computer worms et al), computer networks have virality coefficients just like human populations do; then you should be able to see that the "maintenance" being required here, is for the sake of increasing the herd-immunity of the network by removing your node within it as a potential infection vector, rather than for the sake of your own computer's individual health per se. (Although it is also for the sake of your own computer, insofar as, besides just joining you to a botnet, a worm could also carry a crypto-locker payload or something equally nefarious.) And if you question why Microsoft should be able to force your computer to "get vaccinated", when the government can't force you to do so — well, consider something the government can do: it can prevent you from driving a car that doesn't pass an EPA inspection. Because driving is a privilege, rather than a right. Well, operating your computer isn't a right either. It can come with conditions. (If you, finally, notice that the distinction should actually be "operating your computer on the Internet", similar to "driving your car on the road" — such that operating your computer offline, or driving your car on a private track, shouldn't be something anyone other than you has a say in — well, I'm not going to argue with you there. Computers could certainly have the option to delay a forced restart to install a patch, but to "force you offline" until such time as the [already-downloaded] patch is installed. I think OSes only don't offer that because it'd be terribly confusing for the average grandmother. But it could certainly be something hidden in the most arcane of config flags.)

sccxy 4y ago

Just use "Pause updates for X days". Install updates once a month and Windows does not have to do it "randomly".

bakugo 4y ago

If you have a Pro or Enterprise SKU you should be able to disable automatic updates by messing with Group Policy (Computer Configuration > Administrative Templates > Windows Components > Windows Update). Changing the "configure automatic updates" policy should be enough but you might have to change others, just go through them and read the descriptions.

andai 4y ago

I recently used Privatezilla to disable automatic updates. Not sure if the same approach works on Windows 11, but you might find the relevant registry keys mentioned in the code helpful: https://github.com/builtbybel/privatezilla/blob/master/src/Privatezilla/Settings/Updates/DisableUpdates.cs https://github.com/builtbybel/privatezilla/blob/master/src/P...

eastbound 4y ago

> Is there a tried and true instruction to (…)? I keep losing sensitive work because of the Windows penchant 2023, the year of Linux on the desktop ?

derefr 4y ago

There are "active" threat classes (worms, and human attackers explicitly running intrusion exploits) that can infect your computer while it is sitting idle, you know. What would you prefer: coming back to find your computer has joined a botnet while you were gone; or coming back to find your computer was restarted while you were gone, to avoid joining a botnet?

jacquesm 4y ago
I would prefer to find it as I left it. And in 45 years of using computers this has always been the case. But then againg, I haven't used windows in more than two decades now, other than a single box here that talks to an older mixer and that machine doesn't even have an internet connection, I treat it as part of the mixer.
- derefr 4y ago
  > And in 45 years of using computers this has always been the case Yes, because you presumably do your computing mostly behind some kind of NAT most of the time, and without any un-patched devices hanging out on the same LAN segment, and so there's no path for worms to have ever reached you by. That's not necessary true for the average computer user, though, who connects to shared wired or wireless networks at an office/coworking space/internet cafe/university campus/etc. Those that do this may end up with either/both of 1. a public-routable (usually IPv6) address for bots and worms to talk to, and 2. a link on a multicast-routable subnet with other already-infected devices. Also, a few years after you stopped using Windows, cryptocurrency was invented, which "changed the game" for cybercriminals in a lot of ways. Fun, meaningless, low-penetration cyberthreats don't exist any more; as "hacking groups" are now motivated by "real money" to get root on every PC they can so they can deploy crypto-miner background services, encrypt files and hold them for (cryptocurrency) ransom, exfiltrate the user's own crypto-wallet private keys, etc.

layer8 4y ago

Did you try Reboot Blocker [0]? It works by constantly rotating the Active Hours configuration so that the current time is always within active hours, thus delaying Windows Update restarts indefinitely. It works reliably on Windows 10, but I couldn’t find confirmation for Windows 11. [0] https://udse.de/reboot-blocker/ https://udse.de/reboot-blocker/

IG_Semmelweiss 4y ago
Oh this is a very creative solution. I will try to find a WIN 11 version - thank you so much!

kens 4y ago

Forced Windows updates caused me no end of problems too. I'd run a simulation overnight and discover Windows had rebooted on its own and I lost all my results. Or I wanted to show a movie at a birthday party but Windows decided it had to spend an hour updating. I followed various instructions to disable automatic updates, and I'm someone who generally keeps things up to date, but after the third time of Windows updates ruining things, I gave up and switched to a MacBook. With Windows it seems like updating is its primary task and running applications is secondary to. There's probably someone at Microsoft who shows weekly graphs of Windows updates, and their bonus depends on the graph continuing up and to the right, so they ram through whatever update features are necessary without thinking of the customer experience.

goldfeld 4y ago
You see, it's Microsoft's point of view that no longer we own a system and are the administrative users of it, but Microsoft by its ClippyAI uses us as a system for their needs and they are the administrative users of their lowly subjects. The fact that you watch videos, open programs and earn a living and lay out files on the PC is merely collateral, they see it's a necessary accident to keep you on the line and plug into your essence to try to drain it. Let's repurpose PC to mean either Piece of Crap or Post-Computers depending on how we react to the new establishment.

vmoore 4y ago

> Is there a tried and true instruction to prevent windows 11 from running updater at all? Check out this: https://www.sordum.org/9470/windows-update-blocker-v1-7/ https://www.sordum.org/9470/windows-update-blocker-v1-7/

IG_Semmelweiss 4y ago
I'm going to try this. Looks easy enough to implement. I'm leaving the PC on all night tonight. Genuinely curious if this will result in a successful block, a failed block....or a BSOD ? I'll report back. Crossing fingers - Thanks you!

wishfish 4y ago

I haven't used 11 yet. When I was on 10, there was a group policy that would prevent automatic updates & restarts. The OS would check regularly for updates but wouldn't automatically download them. If this is still available in 11, that's your best solution.

t0bia_s 4y ago
simplewall let you completely block connection to update servers. https://www.henrypp.org/product/simplewall https://www.henrypp.org/product/simplewall Also it is probably best opensource firewall for Windows out there. Portmaster from Stafin has similar approach but not good for managing firewall rules.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]