4 ms·

US bombed Nord Stream gas pipelines, claims investigative journalist Hersh

21 points by hammock 4y ago

verdverm 4y ago
https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how-america-took-out-the-nord-stream https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how-america-took-out-the... The original post making the claims
bediger4000 4y ago
How sane is Hersh these days? I get the sense that the US failure to deal with Abu Ghraib torture in any meaningful way broke him.
- raverbashing 4y ago
  > Hersh’s more recent stories have been called into question. These included articles about how the US found Osama bin Laden and calling into question the use of chemical weapons on Syrian civilians by Syria’s regime, which were criticised for relying heavily on anonymous sources and lacking hard evidence. Yeah I'd say some people should just enjoy retirement, as investigative work is hard and it's easy to be misled > which were later triggered by a sonar buoy dropped by a plane. Yeah I have a hunch that's not how it works.
- tanseydavid 4y ago
  You're questioning his sanity? Because of an article he wrote 20 years ago which did not cause the government to change? Is that sufficient to make someone insane? Seems way off to me.
swader999 4y ago
Biden said he would do it. Act of war without congressional go ahead seems to be the norm now.
- TechBro8615 4y ago
  The last time Congress declared war was June 4, 1942 [0]. [0] https://www.senate.gov/about/powers-procedures/declarations-of-war.htm https://www.senate.gov/about/powers-procedures/declarations-...
  - swader999 4y ago
    Not referring to declaring war.
- vosper 4y ago
  > Biden said he would do it. When did he say that?
  - swader999 4y ago
    Feb 7, 2022: https://youtu.be/OS4O8rGRLf8 https://youtu.be/OS4O8rGRLf8
Maursault 4y ago
On 26 September at 02:03 local time (CEST), an explosion was detected originating from Nord Stream 2; a pressure drop in the pipeline was reported and natural gas began escaping to the surface southeast of the Danish island of Bornholm. Seventeen hours later, the same occurred to Nord Stream 1, resulting in three separate leaks northeast of Bornholm. All three affected pipes were rendered inoperable; Russia has confirmed one of the two Nord Stream 2 pipes is operable and is thus ready to deliver gas through Nord Stream 2. The leaks occurred one day after Poland and Norway opened the Baltic Pipe running through Denmark, bringing in gas from the North Sea, rather than from Russia as the Nord Stream pipelines do.[1] Article is thick on innuendo and thin on verifiable facts. Ignoring the fact that President Biden never loses an opportunity to show how tough he is, and that the US nearly always announces events and presents the case why it had to be done right after any operation, US would have means and opportunity, but every other European nation with intelligence services would have known that. Personally, my suspicion rests not on US, Norway, Denmark or Poland, proper, but on the single entity that benefits the most from destruction of NS1 & NS2.[2] The sloppy work (17 hours between detonations rather than simultaneous) supports the idea that this was a less experienced team, and why it was executed 7 months after Russia invaded rather than the day after, which if a serious threat and not just diplomatic saber rattling, that's when US would have executed, in late February, followed by interrupting your regularly scheduled program for a special announcement by the President of the United States. I also don't think US would have risked demolition divers when underwater drones, even torpedos, would suffice. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Nord_Stream_pipeline_sabotage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Nord_Stream_pipeline_sabo... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaz-System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaz-System
haspoken 4y ago
https://archive.is/360mI https://archive.is/360mI
tsimionescu 4y ago
The fact that Germany, Sweden, and Denmark, the countries investigating the explosions, are refusing to point any fingers at Russia suggests to me that they have serious reasons to believe that it may have been an ally nation that destroyed the pipeline. Pointing the finger at the USA, even if they had very concrete evidence, would be a massive diplomatic problem - so it stands to reason that we would not hear about it. By contrast, especially in the context of the war, pointing the finger at Russia would not particularly affect diplomatic ties - especially given how Russia has already been pointing the finger at everyone else. So, even if this report itself is rather thin on evidence, it is presenting what seems to be by far the most plausible hypothesis.
Berazu 4y ago
So, what happens next? Assuming this is true and all, what repercussions are the US going to face? Or are all countries just going to ignore this since this was successfully covert in the past?

21 points by hammock 4y ago

https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how-america-took-out-the-nord-stream https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how-america-took-out-the... The original post making the claims

bediger4000 4y ago

How sane is Hersh these days? I get the sense that the US failure to deal with Abu Ghraib torture in any meaningful way broke him.

raverbashing 4y ago
> Hersh’s more recent stories have been called into question. These included articles about how the US found Osama bin Laden and calling into question the use of chemical weapons on Syrian civilians by Syria’s regime, which were criticised for relying heavily on anonymous sources and lacking hard evidence. Yeah I'd say some people should just enjoy retirement, as investigative work is hard and it's easy to be misled > which were later triggered by a sonar buoy dropped by a plane. Yeah I have a hunch that's not how it works.
tanseydavid 4y ago
You're questioning his sanity? Because of an article he wrote 20 years ago which did not cause the government to change? Is that sufficient to make someone insane? Seems way off to me.

swader999 4y ago

Biden said he would do it. Act of war without congressional go ahead seems to be the norm now.

TechBro8615 4y ago
The last time Congress declared war was June 4, 1942 [0]. [0] https://www.senate.gov/about/powers-procedures/declarations-of-war.htm https://www.senate.gov/about/powers-procedures/declarations-...
- swader999 4y ago
  Not referring to declaring war.
vosper 4y ago
> Biden said he would do it. When did he say that?
- swader999 4y ago
  Feb 7, 2022: https://youtu.be/OS4O8rGRLf8 https://youtu.be/OS4O8rGRLf8

Maursault 4y ago

On 26 September at 02:03 local time (CEST), an explosion was detected originating from Nord Stream 2; a pressure drop in the pipeline was reported and natural gas began escaping to the surface southeast of the Danish island of Bornholm. Seventeen hours later, the same occurred to Nord Stream 1, resulting in three separate leaks northeast of Bornholm. All three affected pipes were rendered inoperable; Russia has confirmed one of the two Nord Stream 2 pipes is operable and is thus ready to deliver gas through Nord Stream 2. The leaks occurred one day after Poland and Norway opened the Baltic Pipe running through Denmark, bringing in gas from the North Sea, rather than from Russia as the Nord Stream pipelines do.[1] Article is thick on innuendo and thin on verifiable facts. Ignoring the fact that President Biden never loses an opportunity to show how tough he is, and that the US nearly always announces events and presents the case why it had to be done right after any operation, US would have means and opportunity, but every other European nation with intelligence services would have known that. Personally, my suspicion rests not on US, Norway, Denmark or Poland, proper, but on the single entity that benefits the most from destruction of NS1 & NS2.[2] The sloppy work (17 hours between detonations rather than simultaneous) supports the idea that this was a less experienced team, and why it was executed 7 months after Russia invaded rather than the day after, which if a serious threat and not just diplomatic saber rattling, that's when US would have executed, in late February, followed by interrupting your regularly scheduled program for a special announcement by the President of the United States. I also don't think US would have risked demolition divers when underwater drones, even torpedos, would suffice. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Nord_Stream_pipeline_sabotage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Nord_Stream_pipeline_sabo... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaz-System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaz-System

haspoken 4y ago

https://archive.is/360mI https://archive.is/360mI

tsimionescu 4y ago

The fact that Germany, Sweden, and Denmark, the countries investigating the explosions, are refusing to point any fingers at Russia suggests to me that they have serious reasons to believe that it may have been an ally nation that destroyed the pipeline. Pointing the finger at the USA, even if they had very concrete evidence, would be a massive diplomatic problem - so it stands to reason that we would not hear about it. By contrast, especially in the context of the war, pointing the finger at Russia would not particularly affect diplomatic ties - especially given how Russia has already been pointing the finger at everyone else. So, even if this report itself is rather thin on evidence, it is presenting what seems to be by far the most plausible hypothesis.

Berazu 4y ago

So, what happens next? Assuming this is true and all, what repercussions are the US going to face? Or are all countries just going to ignore this since this was successfully covert in the past?