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Not sure that would make a difference. Western societies have an issue with genocide, so Russia claims Ukraine was committing genocide against Russians. If West

Not sure that would make a difference. Western societies have an issue with genocide, so Russia claims Ukraine was committing genocide against Russians. If Westerners didn't care about genocide, Russia would've claimed something else, Putin certainly has no issue with genocide. So if our thing du jure wasn't misinformation, I'm sure they'd just claim they're using their powers to combat hate speech or whatever else is culturally okay. If there's really nothing available, there's always "we need to protect the children from predators who are trying to abuse this dire situation". In the end, it doesn't matter if you're in power. Your tribe will always be with you, no matter the reason you're giving, and the opposition will be silenced.

hkpack 4y ago
You probably don't understand nuances of why Russia says what, it is not only about the western values, but just a very effective tactic in the information warfare. I know about at least three major points: * Russia always blame other party of the crimes it about to commit. It ties the enemy and allies into the "you did, no your did" kind of arguments. This also helps to push all sorts of fake narratives into the enemy population. We witness this over and over. * It is a power play. Russian people enjoy very much the fact that their officials can say and do whatever they want, and the world can do nothing. This gives Russians true joy (as witnessed first hand). It also demoralises enemy heavily, because instead of pointing to the obvious crime, "not everything is so clear" now. * It cements alternative history. For example, children in school all over Russia will learn about the current events based on the "official" alternative reasoning.
- luckylion 4y ago
  I believe the Western values are what makes it an effective tactic, and it's the same reason why they're calling the Ukrainians Nazis while simultaneously running towards fascism: if you say that X is a Nazi and is committing genocide, you'll have a visceral reaction in the West that creates sympathies/doubts of other narratives in at least part of the population (this will not work the same way/to the same degree in non-Western societies). If the West was fascist, I'm sure Russia wouldn't be talking internationally about Nazis and genocide because it wouldn't have any impact. You're very right about the historical narrative as an internal component. Connecting current conflicts to WW2 will make people fall in line much more quickly than saying "it's about natural resources that were mistakenly buried on the wrong side of the border and also we want a land connection to Crimea". Much like Americans will always invoke freedom because it's part of their national identity and people are less likely to question why they're invading Iraq if you mention it. Russia being threatened by fascist forces in the West is a continuation of the existing historical narrative and neatly ties into it. It's definitely a much better PR strategy than Germany had in Afghanistan during Operation Enduring Freedom where our secretary of defense prominently said that Germany's security was being defended at the hindu kush. It's makes sense in abstraction ("we need to confront those who disregard human rights even if they're 5000 km away") but it's not concrete and it didn't increase support for the war at all.
  - actionfromafar 4y ago
    Maybe... but Russia has for decades carefully tended to the WW2 mythos of Soviets defending the world against nazis. The anti nazi propaganda is not only for foreign ears, but for domestic consumption as well. "Us against the world, who is out to get us. All current problems stem at its root from the blow dealt to us during the Great Patriotic War."

hkpack 4y ago

You probably don't understand nuances of why Russia says what, it is not only about the western values, but just a very effective tactic in the information warfare. I know about at least three major points: * Russia always blame other party of the crimes it about to commit. It ties the enemy and allies into the "you did, no your did" kind of arguments. This also helps to push all sorts of fake narratives into the enemy population. We witness this over and over. * It is a power play. Russian people enjoy very much the fact that their officials can say and do whatever they want, and the world can do nothing. This gives Russians true joy (as witnessed first hand). It also demoralises enemy heavily, because instead of pointing to the obvious crime, "not everything is so clear" now. * It cements alternative history. For example, children in school all over Russia will learn about the current events based on the "official" alternative reasoning.

luckylion 4y ago
I believe the Western values are what makes it an effective tactic, and it's the same reason why they're calling the Ukrainians Nazis while simultaneously running towards fascism: if you say that X is a Nazi and is committing genocide, you'll have a visceral reaction in the West that creates sympathies/doubts of other narratives in at least part of the population (this will not work the same way/to the same degree in non-Western societies). If the West was fascist, I'm sure Russia wouldn't be talking internationally about Nazis and genocide because it wouldn't have any impact. You're very right about the historical narrative as an internal component. Connecting current conflicts to WW2 will make people fall in line much more quickly than saying "it's about natural resources that were mistakenly buried on the wrong side of the border and also we want a land connection to Crimea". Much like Americans will always invoke freedom because it's part of their national identity and people are less likely to question why they're invading Iraq if you mention it. Russia being threatened by fascist forces in the West is a continuation of the existing historical narrative and neatly ties into it. It's definitely a much better PR strategy than Germany had in Afghanistan during Operation Enduring Freedom where our secretary of defense prominently said that Germany's security was being defended at the hindu kush. It's makes sense in abstraction ("we need to confront those who disregard human rights even if they're 5000 km away") but it's not concrete and it didn't increase support for the war at all.
- actionfromafar 4y ago
  Maybe... but Russia has for decades carefully tended to the WW2 mythos of Soviets defending the world against nazis. The anti nazi propaganda is not only for foreign ears, but for domestic consumption as well. "Us against the world, who is out to get us. All current problems stem at its root from the blow dealt to us during the Great Patriotic War."