4 ms·

Class B criteria is > 300K operations annually - ~200K is KAUS. KSTL and KMCI were formal airline hubs and are still Class B most likely due to legacy assignme

Class B criteria is > 300K operations annually - ~200K is KAUS. KSTL and KMCI were formal airline hubs and are still Class B most likely due to legacy assignments. It's a lot harder for the FAA to "demote" a piece of airspace vs "promote" one. I'm curious as to what you think upgrading KAUS to Class B would exactly accomplish, especially in this scenario? This was a runway localized mistake by the controller. Also, the word in the ATC community is this tower controller had been moved around the NAS multiple times as a problem child. KSAT's airspace (not the airport, the airspace) farther south is FAR busier than KAUS and is considered some of the busiest airspace in the county due to multiple military fields in the area, extensive military training, etc. And it's also Class C airspace.

ninjagoo 4y ago
> Class B criteria is > 300K operations annually - ~200K is KAUS Under certain circumstances > 220k annual ops qualifies an airport for Class B status [1]. Austin's 2022 vs 2021 traffic is significantly higher [2]. When you include KEDC (Austin Exec Airport) and KGTU (Georgetown Municipal), the traffic certainly appears to exceeds the thresholds in question [3][4][5]. I didn't bother to look through the other airports within the area. > I'm curious as to what you think upgrading KAUS to Class B would exactly accomplish, especially in this scenario? This was a runway localized mistake by the controller. Also, the word in the ATC community is this tower controller had been moved around the NAS multiple times as a problem child. Designation as a Class B changes the care with which the airspace is managed and more importantly, staffed [6][7]. Perhaps the problem ATC is fine for a less busy area, perhaps the Tower staffing could use a little more oomph in the morning hours. There might also be additional RWLS and ARIWS requirements for Class B airports (needs regulatory research - maybe ChatGPT can give us pointers since this is all supposed to be public info!). > KSAT's airspace (not the airport, the airspace) farther south is FAR busier than KAUS and is considered some of the busiest airspace in the county due to multiple military fields in the area, extensive military training, etc. And it's also Class C airspace. The FAA Sectional for KSAT (San Antonio) shows that there are multiple Special Use Airspaces (Randolph, Laughlin, Crystal/North, Kingsville MOAs) to separate the civilian traffic from military airspace, and the military has their own controllers [8]. Caution: 111MB file. [1] https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/pham_html/chap15_section_2.html https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/pham_htm... [2] https://www.austintexas.gov/news/november-2022-passenger-cargo-traffic-austin-bergstrom https://www.austintexas.gov/news/november-2022-passenger-car... [3] https://www.gcr1.com/5010ReportRouter/EDC.pdf https://www.gcr1.com/5010ReportRouter/EDC.pdf [4] https://www.gcr1.com/5010ReportRouter/GTU.pdf https://www.gcr1.com/5010ReportRouter/GTU.pdf [5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgetown_Municipal_Airport https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgetown_Municipal_Airport [6] https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/pham_html/chap15_section_3.html https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/pham_htm... [7] https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/pham_html/chap16_section_3.html https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/pham_htm... [8] https://aeronav.faa.gov/visual/02-23-2023/PDFs/San_Antonio.pdf https://aeronav.faa.gov/visual/02-23-2023/PDFs/San_Antonio.p...
- blantonl 4y ago
  I fly in this airspace. (KAUS and KSAT and KDFW) KAUS might be the most classic example of Class C airspace in existence. They only have 3 App/Dep positions with a spare 4th, and the top of the charlie is 4500 feet. I can overfly that in a light sport. Austin airspace isn't nearly as busy as you make it out to be. And in the context of this incident, arguing that KAUS needs to be upgraded to a Class B is kind of non-sequitur. A class B wouldn't solve anything except to make the area airspace wildly more restrictive.
  - ninjagoo 4y ago
    > I fly in this airspace. (KAUS and KSAT and KDFW) > KAUS might be the most classic example of Class C airspace in existence. They only have 3 App/Dep positions with a spare 4th, and the top of the charlie is 4500 feet. I can overfly that in a light sport. > Austin airspace isn't nearly as busy as you make it out to be. Fair enough, local knowledge FTW. I made a suggestion - "it might be time to upgrade to Class B" as a systematic solution for an airspace that appears to be getting busier. It certainly appears to meet the FAA criteria based purely on stats. > And in the context of this incident, arguing that KAUS needs to be upgraded to a Class B is kind of non-sequitur. A class B wouldn't solve anything except to make the area airspace wildly more restrictive. You must have missed the part where I mentioned that Class B designation comes with staffing changes for ATCs which would presumably positively impact such occurrences :-) Maybe the alternative is better training, better operations in mornings, better rules around ATC IFR ground ops. 140+ dead people is 140+ dead people. Let's see what the NTSB says. Also, with the plans to expand the airport with more gates, I'm guessing changes are coming to that airspace regardless [1][2]. Though the additional 17C-35C runway appears to be past 2037 [2] Pg 17, [3]. > > I fly in this airspace. (KAUS and KSAT and KDFW) If you're flying in and out of KDFW you should have no trouble with a future Class B KAUS :-) [1] https://www.austintexas.gov/department/aus-master-plan https://www.austintexas.gov/department/aus-master-plan [2] https://www.austintexas.gov/sites/default/files/images/Airport/business/AUS_Master_Plan/c8_MasterPlan.pdf https://www.austintexas.gov/sites/default/files/images/Airpo... [3] https://www.austintexas.gov/sites/default/files/images/Airport/business/AUS_Master_Plan/04-M3343-GI-1-01-Airport%20Layout%20Plan%20-%20Future.pdf https://www.austintexas.gov/sites/default/files/images/Airpo...

ninjagoo 4y ago

> Class B criteria is > 300K operations annually - ~200K is KAUS Under certain circumstances > 220k annual ops qualifies an airport for Class B status [1]. Austin's 2022 vs 2021 traffic is significantly higher [2]. When you include KEDC (Austin Exec Airport) and KGTU (Georgetown Municipal), the traffic certainly appears to exceeds the thresholds in question [3][4][5]. I didn't bother to look through the other airports within the area. > I'm curious as to what you think upgrading KAUS to Class B would exactly accomplish, especially in this scenario? This was a runway localized mistake by the controller. Also, the word in the ATC community is this tower controller had been moved around the NAS multiple times as a problem child. Designation as a Class B changes the care with which the airspace is managed and more importantly, staffed [6][7]. Perhaps the problem ATC is fine for a less busy area, perhaps the Tower staffing could use a little more oomph in the morning hours. There might also be additional RWLS and ARIWS requirements for Class B airports (needs regulatory research - maybe ChatGPT can give us pointers since this is all supposed to be public info!). > KSAT's airspace (not the airport, the airspace) farther south is FAR busier than KAUS and is considered some of the busiest airspace in the county due to multiple military fields in the area, extensive military training, etc. And it's also Class C airspace. The FAA Sectional for KSAT (San Antonio) shows that there are multiple Special Use Airspaces (Randolph, Laughlin, Crystal/North, Kingsville MOAs) to separate the civilian traffic from military airspace, and the military has their own controllers [8]. Caution: 111MB file. [1] https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/pham_html/chap15_section_2.html https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/pham_htm... [2] https://www.austintexas.gov/news/november-2022-passenger-cargo-traffic-austin-bergstrom https://www.austintexas.gov/news/november-2022-passenger-car... [3] https://www.gcr1.com/5010ReportRouter/EDC.pdf https://www.gcr1.com/5010ReportRouter/EDC.pdf [4] https://www.gcr1.com/5010ReportRouter/GTU.pdf https://www.gcr1.com/5010ReportRouter/GTU.pdf [5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgetown_Municipal_Airport https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgetown_Municipal_Airport [6] https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/pham_html/chap15_section_3.html https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/pham_htm... [7] https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/pham_html/chap16_section_3.html https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/pham_htm... [8] https://aeronav.faa.gov/visual/02-23-2023/PDFs/San_Antonio.pdf https://aeronav.faa.gov/visual/02-23-2023/PDFs/San_Antonio.p...

blantonl 4y ago
I fly in this airspace. (KAUS and KSAT and KDFW) KAUS might be the most classic example of Class C airspace in existence. They only have 3 App/Dep positions with a spare 4th, and the top of the charlie is 4500 feet. I can overfly that in a light sport. Austin airspace isn't nearly as busy as you make it out to be. And in the context of this incident, arguing that KAUS needs to be upgraded to a Class B is kind of non-sequitur. A class B wouldn't solve anything except to make the area airspace wildly more restrictive.
- ninjagoo 4y ago
  > I fly in this airspace. (KAUS and KSAT and KDFW) > KAUS might be the most classic example of Class C airspace in existence. They only have 3 App/Dep positions with a spare 4th, and the top of the charlie is 4500 feet. I can overfly that in a light sport. > Austin airspace isn't nearly as busy as you make it out to be. Fair enough, local knowledge FTW. I made a suggestion - "it might be time to upgrade to Class B" as a systematic solution for an airspace that appears to be getting busier. It certainly appears to meet the FAA criteria based purely on stats. > And in the context of this incident, arguing that KAUS needs to be upgraded to a Class B is kind of non-sequitur. A class B wouldn't solve anything except to make the area airspace wildly more restrictive. You must have missed the part where I mentioned that Class B designation comes with staffing changes for ATCs which would presumably positively impact such occurrences :-) Maybe the alternative is better training, better operations in mornings, better rules around ATC IFR ground ops. 140+ dead people is 140+ dead people. Let's see what the NTSB says. Also, with the plans to expand the airport with more gates, I'm guessing changes are coming to that airspace regardless [1][2]. Though the additional 17C-35C runway appears to be past 2037 [2] Pg 17, [3]. > > I fly in this airspace. (KAUS and KSAT and KDFW) If you're flying in and out of KDFW you should have no trouble with a future Class B KAUS :-) [1] https://www.austintexas.gov/department/aus-master-plan https://www.austintexas.gov/department/aus-master-plan [2] https://www.austintexas.gov/sites/default/files/images/Airport/business/AUS_Master_Plan/c8_MasterPlan.pdf https://www.austintexas.gov/sites/default/files/images/Airpo... [3] https://www.austintexas.gov/sites/default/files/images/Airport/business/AUS_Master_Plan/04-M3343-GI-1-01-Airport%20Layout%20Plan%20-%20Future.pdf https://www.austintexas.gov/sites/default/files/images/Airpo...