4 ms·

> militarised colonialism, while the US is fairly competent at it. Are they, actually? Vietnam, Afghanistan etc..

aa-jv 4y ago
We must never forget that the American people murdered 5% of Iraqs' population on the basis of utter lies and have not faced justice for this atrocious abuse. The moral authority that Americans claim, to justify their nations' heinous crimes against humanity, simply doesn't exist. Americans AND Russians ought to be shunned for their nations' war crimes.
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  No one claims a 2M+ death toll in Iraq, as far as I can tell.
  - aa-jv 4y ago
    Of course, because that would destroy the frail moral authority that American's use to impose their war conditions across the globe... But, you know, those doing all the healing of the victims, have been keeping track: https://psr.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/body-count.pdf https://psr.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/body-count.pdf "Thus, the intense debate revolving around casualty figures is an important element in the discussion of whether the population supports such interventions or not. It is therefore not surprising that the media, and even parts of academia, be it ideologically motivated or guided by other interests, use starkly sanitized figures (see Chapter 3: “The Numbers War”) And this has been quite successful: In a 2007 poll, Americans estimated the number of killed Iraqis at less than 10,000. However, should the number of Iraqis killed from the 2003 U.S. invasion until 2012 actually be around one million, as the analysis of the existing scientific studies presented in the present study suggests, this would represent 5% of the total population of Iraq – a number which additionally indicates the extent of the corresponding damage inflicted upon society and the infrastructure. " “I believe the perception caused by civilian casualties is one of the most dangerous enemies we face.” U.S. General Stanley A. McCrystal in his inaugural speech as ISAF Commander in June 2009.
    - ceejayoz 4y ago
      Like I said, no one's claiming 2M. Even if we take the most aggressive estimate (out of those listed on Wikipedia) of 1M, that's not 5% of the population.
      - aa-jv 4y ago
        Maybe you should match your figures with those of the Physicians for Social Responsibility: "However, should the number of Iraqis killed from the 2003 U.S. invasion until 2012 actually be around one million, as the analysis of the existing scientific studies presented in the present study suggests, this would represent 5% of the total population of Iraq .." Of course Americans' aren't going to own up to the magnitude of this crime. But it should be noted that this report was issued in 2015 - and a lot more death has happened since then. 5% is a conservative estimate.
        ceejayoz 4y ago
        The population of Iraq is 43 million. 1/43 isn't anywhere near 5%, and I'm not inclined to credit all of the high-end estimate of 1M to Americans.
        somenameforme 4y ago
        The estimate of 1 million casualties is from 2007. We had not yet even begun withdrawing troops, and things like The War in Iraq (Islamic State) wouldn't even start until 2013. And that war was directly caused by our actions. There's also the question of "when" when talking about a percent. The population of Iraq in 2003 (when the war started) was around 26 million. Their exceptionally rapid population growth is ironic when talking about us killing off a large chunk of their population, but relevant nonetheless. You end up with this weird scenario where Iraqi lives are measured (for those using percentages) less meaningful each year that passes. Ultimately using percents is probably just a bad idea, and it's not like it's necessary to contextualize here how killing whether hundreds of thousands of some low millions of people, primarily civilians, is a really awful thing to do, let alone in a war based entirely on fabricated evidence.

We must never forget that the American people murdered 5% of Iraqs' population on the basis of utter lies and have not faced justice for this atrocious abuse. The moral authority that Americans claim, to justify their nations' heinous crimes against humanity, simply doesn't exist. Americans AND Russians ought to be shunned for their nations' war crimes.

ceejayoz 4y ago
No one claims a 2M+ death toll in Iraq, as far as I can tell.
- aa-jv 4y ago
  Of course, because that would destroy the frail moral authority that American's use to impose their war conditions across the globe... But, you know, those doing all the healing of the victims, have been keeping track: https://psr.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/body-count.pdf https://psr.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/body-count.pdf "Thus, the intense debate revolving around casualty figures is an important element in the discussion of whether the population supports such interventions or not. It is therefore not surprising that the media, and even parts of academia, be it ideologically motivated or guided by other interests, use starkly sanitized figures (see Chapter 3: “The Numbers War”) And this has been quite successful: In a 2007 poll, Americans estimated the number of killed Iraqis at less than 10,000. However, should the number of Iraqis killed from the 2003 U.S. invasion until 2012 actually be around one million, as the analysis of the existing scientific studies presented in the present study suggests, this would represent 5% of the total population of Iraq – a number which additionally indicates the extent of the corresponding damage inflicted upon society and the infrastructure. " “I believe the perception caused by civilian casualties is one of the most dangerous enemies we face.” U.S. General Stanley A. McCrystal in his inaugural speech as ISAF Commander in June 2009.
  - ceejayoz 4y ago
    Like I said, no one's claiming 2M. Even if we take the most aggressive estimate (out of those listed on Wikipedia) of 1M, that's not 5% of the population.
    - aa-jv 4y ago
      Maybe you should match your figures with those of the Physicians for Social Responsibility: "However, should the number of Iraqis killed from the 2003 U.S. invasion until 2012 actually be around one million, as the analysis of the existing scientific studies presented in the present study suggests, this would represent 5% of the total population of Iraq .." Of course Americans' aren't going to own up to the magnitude of this crime. But it should be noted that this report was issued in 2015 - and a lot more death has happened since then. 5% is a conservative estimate.
      - ceejayoz 4y ago
        The population of Iraq is 43 million. 1/43 isn't anywhere near 5%, and I'm not inclined to credit all of the high-end estimate of 1M to Americans.
        somenameforme 4y ago
        The estimate of 1 million casualties is from 2007. We had not yet even begun withdrawing troops, and things like The War in Iraq (Islamic State) wouldn't even start until 2013. And that war was directly caused by our actions. There's also the question of "when" when talking about a percent. The population of Iraq in 2003 (when the war started) was around 26 million. Their exceptionally rapid population growth is ironic when talking about us killing off a large chunk of their population, but relevant nonetheless. You end up with this weird scenario where Iraqi lives are measured (for those using percentages) less meaningful each year that passes. Ultimately using percents is probably just a bad idea, and it's not like it's necessary to contextualize here how killing whether hundreds of thousands of some low millions of people, primarily civilians, is a really awful thing to do, let alone in a war based entirely on fabricated evidence.