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For context, Estonia is a NATO member with significant Russian minority population
by engineer_22 4y ago
For context, Estonia is a NATO member with significant Russian minority population
- m2fkxy 4y agoRussian-speaking*. An interesting 2014 read on their inclusion re: national defence matters: https://icds.ee/wp-content/uploads/2014/Juhan_Kivirahk_-_Integrating_Estonias_Russian-Speaking_Population.pdf https://icds.ee/wp-content/uploads/2014/Juhan_Kivirahk_-_Int...
- engineer_22 4y agoThanks for that!
- luckylion 4y agoThey use the term ethnic Russian-speaking minorities, but from those minorities, it's ~89% Russians, ~8% Ukrainians and ~3% Belarusians. Not sure how much Pro-Russia sentiment there is among Ukrainians in Estonia but I'd be surprised if it's significant, so it's really "Russians" in 2023, even if it was broadly "Russian-speaking" in 2014.
- O__________O 4y agoAt this point even having a Russian speaking population is potentially a liability regardless if they’re pro-Russian or not, since Russia will just spin whatever pro-Estonian or anti-Russian sentiment they say to be propaganda and Russia will just say they obviously need to be liberated so they’re able to express their support for Russia. While only roughly 300,000 to 450,000 of 1.3 million of Estonians have ethnic ties to Russia, 73% are near Estonia’s border with Russia: https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/et-people-russians.htm https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/et-peop... This YouTube provides an animated history of Estonian borders: https://youtube.com/watch?v=HBA0xDHZjko https://youtube.com/watch?v=HBA0xDHZjko
- 01ce8c91872dd6d 4y agothat sure sounds like a question in dire need of a solution!
- O__________O 4y agoOnly if you consider a 100 year old border a dire situation. Otherwise it would make way more sense economically for Russia to offer to resettle anyone interested no longer being Estonian instead of invading yet another sovereign country.
- throw-ru-938 4y agoThe present border is more like 80 year old, it was adjusted by the USSR (favouring Russia) after the Baltics were annexed in 1940. However, it generally follows the pre-1917 borders of the Governorates of Estland and Livonia.
- O__________O 4y agoMap showing the annex your referencing: https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=352476 https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=352476 I was unable to find a map overlaying pre-1917 borders and current borders.
- randomname93857 4y agoFor context: in USSR a person could not choose to move to live in another area, city or town. that was VERY difficult to do (was possible by marriage). Baltic countries and any close to border areas were especially controlled. But military, KGB and Communist party could appoint people to live in Baltic countries. those were "special" people - that proved their allegiance I can say. That is why they are a challenge to Estonia and other Baltic countries.
- O__________O 4y agoMy understanding is the Estonian-Russian border as it is currently has been in place over 100 years, is this inaccurate?
- skeletal88 4y agoFor context: there were about 2-3% russians of the total population before WWII. Russia imported hundreds of thousands of them, with the explicit goal of replacing us local estonians. Unfortunately we now have this.. large minority and a part of it yearns for the time when they, the russians were the master race in the empire, everything could be done in their language and all others were below them.
- Cthulhu_ 4y agoAnd a former USSR country (although not willingly), and it shares a border with Russia, and it's the most remote NATO country. That said, if Russia does try anything, that will escalate the conflict and get NATO involved directly.
- jnsaff2 4y ago> a former USSR country (although not willingly) this is a weird construct, we were not willingly part of soviet union, not not willingly former
- actionfromafar 4y agoI think the former (not willingly part of) is the intended reading, referrring to how the Baltics were forced into the Soviet fold, as opposed to how some other constituent republics joined. (Not to belittle the foul play of the creation of Soviet Union in general, either.)
- jnsaff2 4y agoI'm sure it is. It was a nit that most reasonable people would have known anyway. That said there are lots of bad faith actors around.
- icepat 4y agoEstonia isn't even really considered a former SSR if I'm not mistaken. The period of time they were an SSR was mostly considered an illegal occupation, with the legitimate and recognized government being in exile. It's similar to calling Vienna, Austria a "former German city" because of the Anschluss.
- usrnm 4y ago[flagged]
- ceejayoz 4y agoFun fact: You're leaving out some key facts. https://news.err.ee/1608873710/still-no-solutions-for-russians-in-estonia-to-renounce-their-citizenship https://news.err.ee/1608873710/still-no-solutions-for-russia... Russia won't let them renounce their citizenship overseas, and going to Russia to do it will get you drafted.
- Waterluvian 4y agoI have a Canadian friend who surrendered his USSR passport in Toronto. His dad absolutely insisted that he do so before visiting Moscow years ago.
- varjag 4y agoThey had an ample time to get their B1 in Estonian and get full citizenship since 1990. For most it's a choice.
- actionfromafar 4y agoStill, maybe Estonia should cook up a special solution now. I bet some residents who were on the fence before the recent aggression changed their minds now. I understand though it's a tricky real-politik situation. I'm lucky to not live in a country with a border to Russia.
- querez 4y agoNo they shouldn't. Russia has played the "we must protect the Russian minority in that region" card before to justify military action. Its' the whole reason we have a war in Ukraine. Estonia must make ensure that no such pretense can exist in their country. Denying citizenship to people who don't denounce their Russian nationality and don't fully accept "becoming Estonian" is the right thing to do, IMO.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]