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Having lived in Britain I’m always surprised by how much the average British citizen doesn’t mind the absurd level of surveillance forced upon them.

the_other 4y ago
Some of us mind; personally I'm lost on how to deal with it. Speaking to my MP doesn't seem to have any effect: they mostly tow party lines. Voting for parties I feel more aligned with doesn't work: they're too small to move the needle. We've been caught in a two-party system for as long as I can remember (since the 80s).
coremoff 4y ago
the UK population is quite authoritarian, and there are a significant number of the electorate who are quite happy to suffer enormous privation if it means that people in the out-group suffer worse.
kypro 4y ago
Over the last year or so all supermarkets in the UK have installed biometric facial recognition cameras at checkout. It's not subtle either – it's literally a HD video camera in your face. So I started covering the checkout cameras and covering my face in supermarkets, but everyone thinks I'm overreacting. I guess I don't really get it. Am I suppose to be fine with this? This isn't some passive CCTV system, it's literally a camera pointed at my face to identify me christ sake. And this stuff happens to me a lot here... I often refuse to give email addresses and number phones, but I get treated as if I'm the one being obstructive. The only exception seems to be if I'm talking about Facebook or Google, then people suddenly seem to care about their privacy, but in the real world there's no regard for privacy at all.
- TeaDude 4y ago
  Oh, that's what those are! I thought it was just a crappy video feed to try and deter theft. Much like all they eye symbols on security camera warning signs. "As if they'd actually get some poor sod to sift through all the footage to prove that you didn't pay for a packet of crisps!"
  - kypro 4y ago
    I'm not sure it's 100% clear what they're being used for or what the plans for them are. What I know is that when I walk into my local ASDA I now appear on a screen with green box around my face like this: https://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/business/asda-denies-using-facial-recognition-cameras-its-customers-blackpool-amid-privacy-concerns-955270 https://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/business/asda-denies-usin... As you can see they're denying that this is used for customer identification, but who knows. It seems extremely suspicious to me that they'd go so far as to implement AI to identify individual faces, but then do nothing with it. What I do know is that there is a company called X5 in Russia which has similar self checkout cameras and they do use this for identification. And recently ASDA and other Supermarkets have partnered with Yoti (a UK digital identity company) to use their checkout cameras for age verification, https://www.yoti.com/blog/yoti-digital-age-verification-trialled-at-supermarkets/ https://www.yoti.com/blog/yoti-digital-age-verification-tria... Imo it's clear where this is heading regardless of what it's being used for exactly today. And it's possible they might already be using these cameras to identify previous problematic customers, but I might just be paranoid. I don't think anyone really knows what individual supermarkets are doing with them today and no one really seems to care either.
- Symbiote 4y ago
  What do they look like? Is it this system? It sounds horrific. https://www.codastory.com/authoritarian-tech/uk-supermarket-biometric-cameras/ https://www.codastory.com/authoritarian-tech/uk-supermarket-...
  - phphphphp 4y ago
    No, the parent poster is referring to cameras that are positioned at self-checkouts. Self-checkout is problematic because of theft, and so cameras are a great way to discourage theft, in the same way that (fake) cameras have been used for years. If people are being watched, they behave better. I'm skeptical of the claim that they're engaging in facial recognition. I guess, at some point, it's possible, but right now, given the widespread use of the cameras across every supermarket, it seems very difficult to imagine that all of these supermarkets have implemented a facial recognition system at the same time. Rather, they've all realised, if you put a camera at a self checkout, it'll probably reduce theft. That's why the screen is there, because you can see yourself being recorded, if it was for facial recognition... why a screen at all? Typically a self-checkout will have a camera if it does not use a scale, whereas cameras are less common at the self-checkouts that use a scale -- and so it's harder to steal. That's my experience anyway across a few different supermarkets in the UK.
BoxOfRain 4y ago
George Orwell had a lot to say on this sort of subject in his essay England your England, a lot of it rings true even to this day.
Accacin 4y ago
Like what, for example? People always mention cameras but most of them are in private hands and if you ever want to check them as you had your bike stolen, you'll quickly notice that none of them work anyway ==' I do tend to agree with you, but adsurd it a little hyperbolic.
Fervicus 4y ago
This is true everywhere outside of our dev circles. Heck, even most devs I personally know still have a "I don't have anything to hide" and "They track everything anyway, stop resisting" attitude.

the_other 4y ago

Some of us mind; personally I'm lost on how to deal with it. Speaking to my MP doesn't seem to have any effect: they mostly tow party lines. Voting for parties I feel more aligned with doesn't work: they're too small to move the needle. We've been caught in a two-party system for as long as I can remember (since the 80s).

coremoff 4y ago

the UK population is quite authoritarian, and there are a significant number of the electorate who are quite happy to suffer enormous privation if it means that people in the out-group suffer worse.

kypro 4y ago

Over the last year or so all supermarkets in the UK have installed biometric facial recognition cameras at checkout. It's not subtle either – it's literally a HD video camera in your face. So I started covering the checkout cameras and covering my face in supermarkets, but everyone thinks I'm overreacting. I guess I don't really get it. Am I suppose to be fine with this? This isn't some passive CCTV system, it's literally a camera pointed at my face to identify me christ sake. And this stuff happens to me a lot here... I often refuse to give email addresses and number phones, but I get treated as if I'm the one being obstructive. The only exception seems to be if I'm talking about Facebook or Google, then people suddenly seem to care about their privacy, but in the real world there's no regard for privacy at all.

TeaDude 4y ago
Oh, that's what those are! I thought it was just a crappy video feed to try and deter theft. Much like all they eye symbols on security camera warning signs. "As if they'd actually get some poor sod to sift through all the footage to prove that you didn't pay for a packet of crisps!"
- kypro 4y ago
  I'm not sure it's 100% clear what they're being used for or what the plans for them are. What I know is that when I walk into my local ASDA I now appear on a screen with green box around my face like this: https://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/business/asda-denies-using-facial-recognition-cameras-its-customers-blackpool-amid-privacy-concerns-955270 https://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/business/asda-denies-usin... As you can see they're denying that this is used for customer identification, but who knows. It seems extremely suspicious to me that they'd go so far as to implement AI to identify individual faces, but then do nothing with it. What I do know is that there is a company called X5 in Russia which has similar self checkout cameras and they do use this for identification. And recently ASDA and other Supermarkets have partnered with Yoti (a UK digital identity company) to use their checkout cameras for age verification, https://www.yoti.com/blog/yoti-digital-age-verification-trialled-at-supermarkets/ https://www.yoti.com/blog/yoti-digital-age-verification-tria... Imo it's clear where this is heading regardless of what it's being used for exactly today. And it's possible they might already be using these cameras to identify previous problematic customers, but I might just be paranoid. I don't think anyone really knows what individual supermarkets are doing with them today and no one really seems to care either.
Symbiote 4y ago
What do they look like? Is it this system? It sounds horrific. https://www.codastory.com/authoritarian-tech/uk-supermarket-biometric-cameras/ https://www.codastory.com/authoritarian-tech/uk-supermarket-...
- phphphphp 4y ago
  No, the parent poster is referring to cameras that are positioned at self-checkouts. Self-checkout is problematic because of theft, and so cameras are a great way to discourage theft, in the same way that (fake) cameras have been used for years. If people are being watched, they behave better. I'm skeptical of the claim that they're engaging in facial recognition. I guess, at some point, it's possible, but right now, given the widespread use of the cameras across every supermarket, it seems very difficult to imagine that all of these supermarkets have implemented a facial recognition system at the same time. Rather, they've all realised, if you put a camera at a self checkout, it'll probably reduce theft. That's why the screen is there, because you can see yourself being recorded, if it was for facial recognition... why a screen at all? Typically a self-checkout will have a camera if it does not use a scale, whereas cameras are less common at the self-checkouts that use a scale -- and so it's harder to steal. That's my experience anyway across a few different supermarkets in the UK.

BoxOfRain 4y ago

George Orwell had a lot to say on this sort of subject in his essay England your England, a lot of it rings true even to this day.

Accacin 4y ago

Like what, for example? People always mention cameras but most of them are in private hands and if you ever want to check them as you had your bike stolen, you'll quickly notice that none of them work anyway ==' I do tend to agree with you, but adsurd it a little hyperbolic.

Fervicus 4y ago

This is true everywhere outside of our dev circles. Heck, even most devs I personally know still have a "I don't have anything to hide" and "They track everything anyway, stop resisting" attitude.