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>"Please OS vendor I want something simple. That hidden `sideload` option is complicated, please lock down my machine." I could easily turn that characterizati

by lovich 4y ago

>"Please OS vendor I want something simple. That hidden `sideload` option is complicated, please lock down my machine." I could easily turn that characterization around. "Please OS vendor, I want something that just works, please don't add customization options that I will never use but if I accidentally select will effectively brick my machine for the technical skill level I have." I might be dating myself here but do you not remember all the complaints about something as simple as resetting a VCR's clock and parents just living with it blinking after a power outage until their technically inclined children took it upon themselves to fix it? >No one's that stupid. They don't have to be stupid, but that doesn't mean the time invested in learning the skills to modify and customize software and hardware is something they want to do. My original point was that people in this thread and others across this site keep talking like they cannot _fathom_ why someone would choose a locked down version of a product over an open one, and I pointed out why many people would. >And that just reeks of authoritarianism. Moralize elsewhere here. No one forced people to buy an iPhone and yet its massively popular. More open products exist for cheaper. Tbh the only who seems to be implying that people are dumb and pushing authoritarianism are the group who keeps pushing to break up these machines that just "work" that the market is showing a high level of preference for

pas 4y ago
People, especially when looked at them in general, it turns out, don't care about general principles. (And sort of rightfully so, because in the last thousands of years almost literally all questions of importance were not questions of principle. Which noblehouse should give the new king? None!? Yeah, that's not a good option. And so on.) Software and these hyperglobal platforms are where principles actually start to matter. (It did not matter even in politics. In principle free speech, sure, but also no generated kiddie porn, because ew. And it did not matter, but suddenly with the capability to force CSAM-detection on the world, we would think it now starts to matter, but no, people in general never heard about this, have no idea about this, and so on.) So with that long intro, it turns out that if enough people want Fortnite on their iThing, or want to repair their tractor or car ... that can force some principles, and that's when people will suddenly care about "my device my blablabla".
saurik 4y ago
You have chosen one property of the iPhone and elevated it to the primary reason why people buy that device, which is entirely disingenuous as clearly people are forced to make tradeoffs in their purchases and nearly 100% of people might despise having locked down devices and yet still buy an iPhone if other things are more important to them... and there are definitely a ton of things the iPhone gets right--both in its hardware and its software--despite* this one glaring thing it gets wrong. Almost everyone I know owns an iPhone... and yet, almost all of them wanted a more open device and bought an iPhone anyway because it has a longer serviceable lifetime (due to software updates for a longer period of time), has a pervasive brick and mortar storefront that sells accessories, lets them use AirPods, has one of the best cameras on a mobile phone (and here it is maybe-interesting to note that Samsung devices are also pretty damned well locked down: you sideload a browser, sure, but you can't get filesystem access or modify any of its stock behaviors)... I could keep going, as Apple is actually an extremely competent company that has built a great product! And yet, those people, when given the chance, were all very excited to jailbreak their phones to get more features. The people who are not technical has their technical friends do it for them. The people who did not have technical friends who wanted to deal with that much effort bring their phones to the little shops which do it for you. At its peak, despite being pretty hard to do, difficult to maintain, and complicated to take advantage of, we had more than 10% of people with an iPhone jailbreaking! That is an insane number of people to just write off :/.
bombolo 4y ago
> do you not remember all the complaints about something as simple as resetting a VCR's clock and parents just living with it blinking after a power outage Why fix it? What's the drawback in leaving it blinking? They could fix it, they just didn't bother. Kids just have more free time.
- klibertp 4y ago
  Unless you're very lucky, it's going to be showing the wrong time. I don't think I ever had a power outage precisely on 00:00. Blinking is actually a nice reminder that you should not look at that clock to check the time. In any case: yeah, you have a single source of time info disabled, but there's a wall clock above the tv, so really, why bother setting the time right? Unless you want to record that show that plays at a time when you have to be out. That's when you call out to the kids to do whatever it takes (setting the clock is one of the things to do, but why bother with the details).

by lovich 4y ago

pas 4y ago

People, especially when looked at them in general, it turns out, don't care about general principles. (And sort of rightfully so, because in the last thousands of years almost literally all questions of importance were not questions of principle. Which noblehouse should give the new king? None!? Yeah, that's not a good option. And so on.) Software and these hyperglobal platforms are where principles actually start to matter. (It did not matter even in politics. In principle free speech, sure, but also no generated kiddie porn, because ew. And it did not matter, but suddenly with the capability to force CSAM-detection on the world, we would think it now starts to matter, but no, people in general never heard about this, have no idea about this, and so on.) So with that long intro, it turns out that if enough people want Fortnite on their iThing, or want to repair their tractor or car ... that can force some principles, and that's when people will suddenly care about "my device my blablabla".

saurik 4y ago

You have chosen one property of the iPhone and elevated it to the primary reason why people buy that device, which is entirely disingenuous as clearly people are forced to make tradeoffs in their purchases and nearly 100% of people might despise having locked down devices and yet still buy an iPhone if other things are more important to them... and there are definitely a ton of things the iPhone gets right--both in its hardware and its software--despite* this one glaring thing it gets wrong. Almost everyone I know owns an iPhone... and yet, almost all of them wanted a more open device and bought an iPhone anyway because it has a longer serviceable lifetime (due to software updates for a longer period of time), has a pervasive brick and mortar storefront that sells accessories, lets them use AirPods, has one of the best cameras on a mobile phone (and here it is maybe-interesting to note that Samsung devices are also pretty damned well locked down: you sideload a browser, sure, but you can't get filesystem access or modify any of its stock behaviors)... I could keep going, as Apple is actually an extremely competent company that has built a great product! And yet, those people, when given the chance, were all very excited to jailbreak their phones to get more features. The people who are not technical has their technical friends do it for them. The people who did not have technical friends who wanted to deal with that much effort bring their phones to the little shops which do it for you. At its peak, despite being pretty hard to do, difficult to maintain, and complicated to take advantage of, we had more than 10% of people with an iPhone jailbreaking! That is an insane number of people to just write off :/.

bombolo 4y ago

> do you not remember all the complaints about something as simple as resetting a VCR's clock and parents just living with it blinking after a power outage Why fix it? What's the drawback in leaving it blinking? They could fix it, they just didn't bother. Kids just have more free time.

klibertp 4y ago
Unless you're very lucky, it's going to be showing the wrong time. I don't think I ever had a power outage precisely on 00:00. Blinking is actually a nice reminder that you should not look at that clock to check the time. In any case: yeah, you have a single source of time info disabled, but there's a wall clock above the tv, so really, why bother setting the time right? Unless you want to record that show that plays at a time when you have to be out. That's when you call out to the kids to do whatever it takes (setting the clock is one of the things to do, but why bother with the details).