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> Personally, I’m more concerned about Chrome than iOS. Agreed. If the doors open, then Google will fight for the iOS browser space. And their ability to lev

by erik 4y ago

> Personally, I’m more concerned about Chrome than iOS. Agreed. If the doors open, then Google will fight for the iOS browser space. And their ability to leverage all of their properties is pretty powerful here. If Chrome takes over iOS, then that's it. No one will bother with site compatibility for anything else. Firefox's chances to stay relevant in that world will be slim.

izacus 4y ago
You mean Google will deliver a better browser than what currently iOS users have to the point that iOS users will decide to move away from the default set in their OS... and Apple won't be competent enough to compete? Because that's the only scenario where that happens and it's plausible - the exact scenario we were in with IE6 where Microsoft refused to provide a better browser and keep up with then new and much better Mozilla and later Chrome browsers. Good product doesn't need monopolist lockdown to be used. If Safari as as good as Apple fans say it is, this massive change won't happen. If Safari sucks, then iOS users are better off with Chrome until someone better comes along. A lot of them will probably choose Firefox though, since it suits them better. Or Brave. Or Vivaldi. It's called competition and drives towards better products for users. It's incredible how anti-free market some of megacorp fans here are. Outright refusing to allow existence of Firefox and other free browsers on iOS is a much worse take than we've ever seen from likes of Microsoft.
- erik 4y ago
  > You mean Google will deliver a better browser than what currently iOS users have to the point that iOS users will decide to move away from the default No, I mean that Google will use their search monopoly, along with their dominant position across other product areas to undercut the market share of any competing browser. Any merit Chrome has is dwarfed by the strength of Google’s ability to push it on users. I have many complaints about Apple’s handling of iOS. But it seems to me that their stance on iOS browsers is the only thing preventing the web from becoming a Blink rendering engine monoculture. I don’t like Apple’s approach. But I’m also concerned about the prospect of a Blink-only future.
  - izacus 4y ago
    Please provide any proof that Google has a greater strength of pushing their browser to iOS users than Apple, the owner of the platform which sets Safari as default, sets Safari as default link handler, sets Safari icon on the preinstall and requires several steps, including creation of AppStore account, to even switch away. Please, provide ANY proof, that Google has this crazy amazing power against the company that owns a platform and that easily caused a tank in Meta revenue by just slightly flexing the power on that platform. And after that, please provide ANY proof that that megacorporation, richer and more competent than Google, cannot provide a browser that could even remotely compete with better user experience on the platform they themselves own. Because what you're claiming is pretty crock that has no basis in reality or history. Edit: I said PROOF, not downvotes ;P
    - joshjje 4y ago
      It is an indisputable fact that if "the doors were opened" that at least some iOS users would be switching browsers and other apps. That is good for competition and innovation, yes, but Google does have a lot of power to nudge people toward doing what they want through the most widely used search engine and all of their other services.
    - yamtaddle 4y ago
      The downvotes are probably because all the parts of this that didn't also apply to Windows when Chrome came out, aren't actually barriers because nearly all users will have already done them for other reasons (like creating an app store account), and Google demonstrably managed to gain huge share there through a massive advertising campaign on their properties, using what amounted to lies ("Youtube is better in Chrome"—eh, not really, not in any way that mattered to anyone reading that message, anyway). You're exaggerating while also being abrasive and wrong ("is pretty crock that has no basis in reality or history"), basically. Chrome didn't rely on word-of-mouth and geek evangelists to spread like FF did in the early years—Google leveraged their monopoly on multiple web products to do it. The proof is that they already did it once—a whole lot of users who truly don't give a shit which browser they run, ended up with Chrome, because Google told them it was better. The differences you list that make this situation seem different aren't actually notable barriers, as you imply they are. If anything, tapping an "install this!" call-out and following through in the app store is both an easier and higher-confidence action for most users than downloading a .exe installer file, running it, and clicking through the installer.

by erik 4y ago

izacus 4y ago

You mean Google will deliver a better browser than what currently iOS users have to the point that iOS users will decide to move away from the default set in their OS... and Apple won't be competent enough to compete? Because that's the only scenario where that happens and it's plausible - the exact scenario we were in with IE6 where Microsoft refused to provide a better browser and keep up with then new and much better Mozilla and later Chrome browsers. Good product doesn't need monopolist lockdown to be used. If Safari as as good as Apple fans say it is, this massive change won't happen. If Safari sucks, then iOS users are better off with Chrome until someone better comes along. A lot of them will probably choose Firefox though, since it suits them better. Or Brave. Or Vivaldi. It's called competition and drives towards better products for users. It's incredible how anti-free market some of megacorp fans here are. Outright refusing to allow existence of Firefox and other free browsers on iOS is a much worse take than we've ever seen from likes of Microsoft.

erik 4y ago
> You mean Google will deliver a better browser than what currently iOS users have to the point that iOS users will decide to move away from the default No, I mean that Google will use their search monopoly, along with their dominant position across other product areas to undercut the market share of any competing browser. Any merit Chrome has is dwarfed by the strength of Google’s ability to push it on users. I have many complaints about Apple’s handling of iOS. But it seems to me that their stance on iOS browsers is the only thing preventing the web from becoming a Blink rendering engine monoculture. I don’t like Apple’s approach. But I’m also concerned about the prospect of a Blink-only future.
- izacus 4y ago
  Please provide any proof that Google has a greater strength of pushing their browser to iOS users than Apple, the owner of the platform which sets Safari as default, sets Safari as default link handler, sets Safari icon on the preinstall and requires several steps, including creation of AppStore account, to even switch away. Please, provide ANY proof, that Google has this crazy amazing power against the company that owns a platform and that easily caused a tank in Meta revenue by just slightly flexing the power on that platform. And after that, please provide ANY proof that that megacorporation, richer and more competent than Google, cannot provide a browser that could even remotely compete with better user experience on the platform they themselves own. Because what you're claiming is pretty crock that has no basis in reality or history. Edit: I said PROOF, not downvotes ;P
  - joshjje 4y ago
    It is an indisputable fact that if "the doors were opened" that at least some iOS users would be switching browsers and other apps. That is good for competition and innovation, yes, but Google does have a lot of power to nudge people toward doing what they want through the most widely used search engine and all of their other services.
  - yamtaddle 4y ago
    The downvotes are probably because all the parts of this that didn't also apply to Windows when Chrome came out, aren't actually barriers because nearly all users will have already done them for other reasons (like creating an app store account), and Google demonstrably managed to gain huge share there through a massive advertising campaign on their properties, using what amounted to lies ("Youtube is better in Chrome"—eh, not really, not in any way that mattered to anyone reading that message, anyway). You're exaggerating while also being abrasive and wrong ("is pretty crock that has no basis in reality or history"), basically. Chrome didn't rely on word-of-mouth and geek evangelists to spread like FF did in the early years—Google leveraged their monopoly on multiple web products to do it. The proof is that they already did it once—a whole lot of users who truly don't give a shit which browser they run, ended up with Chrome, because Google told them it was better. The differences you list that make this situation seem different aren't actually notable barriers, as you imply they are. If anything, tapping an "install this!" call-out and following through in the app store is both an easier and higher-confidence action for most users than downloading a .exe installer file, running it, and clicking through the installer.