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It’s only iOS/iPadOS that Apple does this with. And iOS makes up 18% of web traffic. That’s a lot, but it means 82% can use the browser they want at any time. C

It’s only iOS/iPadOS that Apple does this with. And iOS makes up 18% of web traffic. That’s a lot, but it means 82% can use the browser they want at any time. Chrome makes up 80-odd percent of all other traffic, so the stats overall look like: Chrome: 65.6% iOS Safari: 18% All others: 16.4% Personally, I’m more concerned about Chrome than iOS.

pakamin2 4y ago
[dead]
Dalewyn 4y ago
>All others: 16.4% This whole essay is really just Mozilla complaining that they aren't on anyone's radar anymore and should be disregarded as bullcrap. Firefox once upon a time defeated IE6 despite home turf advantage, to say nothing of Chrome which played that game even better. If Mozilla wants more market share, maybe they should make software people actually fucking want.
- nhchris 4y ago
  How many people choose a browser, compared to those that use whatever the OS defaults to/pushes on them?
  - mschuster91 4y ago
    Microsoft Edge's main purpose is to download Chrome.
    - 867-5309 4y ago
      Windows now ships with wget or curl (can't remember which) so there's no longer any need to use its browser!
  - Dalewyn 4y ago
    The millions if not billions of Windows users who choose to use Chrome? Also, using the OS default is also a choice. If someone uses Edge in Windows, that's a choice. It's only iOS where users have no choice.
    - agos 4y ago
      Chrome is also pushed quite aggressively by Google
      - Dalewyn 4y ago
        And they continue to win the fight Mozilla cannot. OS restrictions, if any, are not the reason Mozilla is dead in the water.
      - izacus 4y ago
        How exactly? Microsoft has been randomly resetting my default browser back to Edge on every big Windows update. They've thrown Edge on my desktop against my wish. They keep buggering me to change the default back. And yet, somehow, Chrome is still more popular. So what are those horrible tactics Google uses to brainwash people into using their browsers when both of their major competitors use their own operating systems to either harass or ouright force the use of their browsers for the users?
        rezonant 4y ago
        Back in the IE days they (Google) did push it pretty hard. There are definitely still some cases where Google could (and should) do better about keeping their services browser-agnostic, but it's way less prominent than it was before. edited for clarity
        izacus 4y ago
        They are pushing pretty hard RIGHT NOW.
        4y ago
politelemon 4y ago
Platform abuse is still not acceptable and should not be justified. For people stuck in that ecosystem the lack of choice is 100%, relativity to global traffic is irrelevant.
- kolinko 4y ago
  Nobody is stuck in the ecosystem. You can change the platform at any time. And for me, I feel having more choice on iPhone compared to Android. With android I would need to limit the apps that I install because of potential security flaws. iOS wins all the security rankings (e.g. https://nordvpn.com/blog/ios-vs-android-security/ https://nordvpn.com/blog/ios-vs-android-security/ ), and it’s closely related to its lockin model.
  - rezonant 4y ago
    You can change phone platforms at any time you want, by buying a new phone for somewhere in the range of $500-$1000 US? And then doing what with the old phone? Selling it?
    - selectodude 4y ago
      iPhones retain their value extremely well, so yeah, sell it.
    - kolinko 4y ago
      Yes, you can sell your iPhone and buy a similar-age Android phone with similar parameters - and you'll probably earn a few bucks on it since iPhones keep their value better.
erik 4y ago
> Personally, I’m more concerned about Chrome than iOS. Agreed. If the doors open, then Google will fight for the iOS browser space. And their ability to leverage all of their properties is pretty powerful here. If Chrome takes over iOS, then that's it. No one will bother with site compatibility for anything else. Firefox's chances to stay relevant in that world will be slim.
- izacus 4y ago
  You mean Google will deliver a better browser than what currently iOS users have to the point that iOS users will decide to move away from the default set in their OS... and Apple won't be competent enough to compete? Because that's the only scenario where that happens and it's plausible - the exact scenario we were in with IE6 where Microsoft refused to provide a better browser and keep up with then new and much better Mozilla and later Chrome browsers. Good product doesn't need monopolist lockdown to be used. If Safari as as good as Apple fans say it is, this massive change won't happen. If Safari sucks, then iOS users are better off with Chrome until someone better comes along. A lot of them will probably choose Firefox though, since it suits them better. Or Brave. Or Vivaldi. It's called competition and drives towards better products for users. It's incredible how anti-free market some of megacorp fans here are. Outright refusing to allow existence of Firefox and other free browsers on iOS is a much worse take than we've ever seen from likes of Microsoft.
  - erik 4y ago
    > You mean Google will deliver a better browser than what currently iOS users have to the point that iOS users will decide to move away from the default No, I mean that Google will use their search monopoly, along with their dominant position across other product areas to undercut the market share of any competing browser. Any merit Chrome has is dwarfed by the strength of Google’s ability to push it on users. I have many complaints about Apple’s handling of iOS. But it seems to me that their stance on iOS browsers is the only thing preventing the web from becoming a Blink rendering engine monoculture. I don’t like Apple’s approach. But I’m also concerned about the prospect of a Blink-only future.
oblio 4y ago
> And iOS makes up 18% of web traffic. That’s a lot, but it means 82% can use the browser they want at any time. The hard truth is that 18% of traffic is probably 50% of the money. In developed countries it's probably 75%-80% of the money.
- the_other 4y ago
  Don't move the goalposts.

pakamin2 4y ago

[dead]

Dalewyn 4y ago

>All others: 16.4% This whole essay is really just Mozilla complaining that they aren't on anyone's radar anymore and should be disregarded as bullcrap. Firefox once upon a time defeated IE6 despite home turf advantage, to say nothing of Chrome which played that game even better. If Mozilla wants more market share, maybe they should make software people actually fucking want.

nhchris 4y ago
How many people choose a browser, compared to those that use whatever the OS defaults to/pushes on them?
- mschuster91 4y ago
  Microsoft Edge's main purpose is to download Chrome.
  - 867-5309 4y ago
    Windows now ships with wget or curl (can't remember which) so there's no longer any need to use its browser!
- Dalewyn 4y ago
  The millions if not billions of Windows users who choose to use Chrome? Also, using the OS default is also a choice. If someone uses Edge in Windows, that's a choice. It's only iOS where users have no choice.
  - agos 4y ago
    Chrome is also pushed quite aggressively by Google
    - Dalewyn 4y ago
      And they continue to win the fight Mozilla cannot. OS restrictions, if any, are not the reason Mozilla is dead in the water.
    - izacus 4y ago
      How exactly? Microsoft has been randomly resetting my default browser back to Edge on every big Windows update. They've thrown Edge on my desktop against my wish. They keep buggering me to change the default back. And yet, somehow, Chrome is still more popular. So what are those horrible tactics Google uses to brainwash people into using their browsers when both of their major competitors use their own operating systems to either harass or ouright force the use of their browsers for the users?
      - rezonant 4y ago
        Back in the IE days they (Google) did push it pretty hard. There are definitely still some cases where Google could (and should) do better about keeping their services browser-agnostic, but it's way less prominent than it was before. edited for clarity
        izacus 4y ago
        They are pushing pretty hard RIGHT NOW.
        4y ago

politelemon 4y ago

Platform abuse is still not acceptable and should not be justified. For people stuck in that ecosystem the lack of choice is 100%, relativity to global traffic is irrelevant.

kolinko 4y ago
Nobody is stuck in the ecosystem. You can change the platform at any time. And for me, I feel having more choice on iPhone compared to Android. With android I would need to limit the apps that I install because of potential security flaws. iOS wins all the security rankings (e.g. https://nordvpn.com/blog/ios-vs-android-security/ https://nordvpn.com/blog/ios-vs-android-security/ ), and it’s closely related to its lockin model.
- rezonant 4y ago
  You can change phone platforms at any time you want, by buying a new phone for somewhere in the range of $500-$1000 US? And then doing what with the old phone? Selling it?
  - selectodude 4y ago
    iPhones retain their value extremely well, so yeah, sell it.
  - kolinko 4y ago
    Yes, you can sell your iPhone and buy a similar-age Android phone with similar parameters - and you'll probably earn a few bucks on it since iPhones keep their value better.

erik 4y ago

> Personally, I’m more concerned about Chrome than iOS. Agreed. If the doors open, then Google will fight for the iOS browser space. And their ability to leverage all of their properties is pretty powerful here. If Chrome takes over iOS, then that's it. No one will bother with site compatibility for anything else. Firefox's chances to stay relevant in that world will be slim.

izacus 4y ago
You mean Google will deliver a better browser than what currently iOS users have to the point that iOS users will decide to move away from the default set in their OS... and Apple won't be competent enough to compete? Because that's the only scenario where that happens and it's plausible - the exact scenario we were in with IE6 where Microsoft refused to provide a better browser and keep up with then new and much better Mozilla and later Chrome browsers. Good product doesn't need monopolist lockdown to be used. If Safari as as good as Apple fans say it is, this massive change won't happen. If Safari sucks, then iOS users are better off with Chrome until someone better comes along. A lot of them will probably choose Firefox though, since it suits them better. Or Brave. Or Vivaldi. It's called competition and drives towards better products for users. It's incredible how anti-free market some of megacorp fans here are. Outright refusing to allow existence of Firefox and other free browsers on iOS is a much worse take than we've ever seen from likes of Microsoft.
- erik 4y ago
  > You mean Google will deliver a better browser than what currently iOS users have to the point that iOS users will decide to move away from the default No, I mean that Google will use their search monopoly, along with their dominant position across other product areas to undercut the market share of any competing browser. Any merit Chrome has is dwarfed by the strength of Google’s ability to push it on users. I have many complaints about Apple’s handling of iOS. But it seems to me that their stance on iOS browsers is the only thing preventing the web from becoming a Blink rendering engine monoculture. I don’t like Apple’s approach. But I’m also concerned about the prospect of a Blink-only future.

oblio 4y ago

> And iOS makes up 18% of web traffic. That’s a lot, but it means 82% can use the browser they want at any time. The hard truth is that 18% of traffic is probably 50% of the money. In developed countries it's probably 75%-80% of the money.

the_other 4y ago
Don't move the goalposts.