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> The upshot is that we might have closer-to-native experiences for websites on iOS Strange. Android is 70% market share. Chrome is something like 80% market s

> The upshot is that we might have closer-to-native experiences for websites on iOS Strange. Android is 70% market share. Chrome is something like 80% market share (all playforms). Where are these glorious "closer to native web apps" we keep hearing about?

h0l0cube 4y ago
I specified on iOS. It would at least be possible on iOS if other renderers could be used, and both Firefox and Google would certainly have their own incentive to make this happen. Google don't want to undermine the Play Store, but they might want to undermine the App Store. Firefox have existential reasons for product differentiation, though web apps won't get traction without broader support by all players.
- iainmerrick 4y ago
  The parent was clearly alluding to “closer-to-native experiences” on Android. If Chrome will bring that to iOS, there should already be examples on Android. Google don't want to undermine the Play Store, but they might want to undermine the App Store. I’ll buy that, but it doesn’t seem like a reason to be optimistic about the way things might go.
  - h0l0cube 4y ago
    > If Chrome will bring that to iOS, there should already be examples on Android. I think I illustrated that the incentives are different > doesn’t seem like a reason to be optimistic I did say "we might have closer-to-native experiences for websites on iOS" (emphasis added) in my OP. Only because it would become possible, not because it would be likely
    - dmitriid 4y ago
      They are already supposedly possible on Android. So?
      - h0l0cube 4y ago
        Better integration with OS features on iOS devices is still an upshot for people who want websites to do more useful things with their phones, if that becomes a possibility. Might not balance out the cost of having a browser hegemony, and it might not be something that’s specifically useful or interesting to you, but a small mercy nonetheless
        dmitriid 4y ago
        > Better integration with OS features on iOS devices is still an upshot for people who want websites to do more useful things with their phones, if that becomes a possibility. Again. "If", and "might help", and something else. Question is: you have Android with 70% market share and all those capabilities you so crave for. Have all these nice hypotheticals happened there, or not? Edit: things devs think "native-like web apps need" vs what they actually need: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34517503 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34517503
        h0l0cube 4y ago
        I think we need all the things you mention in that comment, and much, if not all, are dependent on the rendering engine internals to implement. e.g., Firefox iOS couldn’t fix it without changes to WebKit
        dmitriid 4y ago
        Android exists. Has 70% market share. Has all those native capabilities you crave. So. Again and again I ask the same simple question: have all the things you're talking about happened there?
        h0l0cube 4y ago
        It just might not be worth doing until browser vendors have a consistent renderer across all platforms (true for Firefox and Chrome) and until Apple loses its leverage. It might also be that it requires coordination and cooperation across all browser vendors to a degree that is unlikely. I’m not privy to the internal politics, so I don’t know which is the case
- dmitriid 4y ago
  So many words to avoid the hard truth: web apps suck, and "we might have closer-to-native experiences" is bullshit. Because, see my comment on Android which already supposedly has these "close to native experiences".

h0l0cube 4y ago

I specified on iOS. It would at least be possible on iOS if other renderers could be used, and both Firefox and Google would certainly have their own incentive to make this happen. Google don't want to undermine the Play Store, but they might want to undermine the App Store. Firefox have existential reasons for product differentiation, though web apps won't get traction without broader support by all players.

iainmerrick 4y ago
The parent was clearly alluding to “closer-to-native experiences” on Android. If Chrome will bring that to iOS, there should already be examples on Android. Google don't want to undermine the Play Store, but they might want to undermine the App Store. I’ll buy that, but it doesn’t seem like a reason to be optimistic about the way things might go.
- h0l0cube 4y ago
  > If Chrome will bring that to iOS, there should already be examples on Android. I think I illustrated that the incentives are different > doesn’t seem like a reason to be optimistic I did say "we might have closer-to-native experiences for websites on iOS" (emphasis added) in my OP. Only because it would become possible, not because it would be likely
  - dmitriid 4y ago
    They are already supposedly possible on Android. So?
    - h0l0cube 4y ago
      Better integration with OS features on iOS devices is still an upshot for people who want websites to do more useful things with their phones, if that becomes a possibility. Might not balance out the cost of having a browser hegemony, and it might not be something that’s specifically useful or interesting to you, but a small mercy nonetheless
      - dmitriid 4y ago
        > Better integration with OS features on iOS devices is still an upshot for people who want websites to do more useful things with their phones, if that becomes a possibility. Again. "If", and "might help", and something else. Question is: you have Android with 70% market share and all those capabilities you so crave for. Have all these nice hypotheticals happened there, or not? Edit: things devs think "native-like web apps need" vs what they actually need: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34517503 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34517503
        h0l0cube 4y ago
        I think we need all the things you mention in that comment, and much, if not all, are dependent on the rendering engine internals to implement. e.g., Firefox iOS couldn’t fix it without changes to WebKit
        dmitriid 4y ago
        Android exists. Has 70% market share. Has all those native capabilities you crave. So. Again and again I ask the same simple question: have all the things you're talking about happened there?
        h0l0cube 4y ago
        It just might not be worth doing until browser vendors have a consistent renderer across all platforms (true for Firefox and Chrome) and until Apple loses its leverage. It might also be that it requires coordination and cooperation across all browser vendors to a degree that is unlikely. I’m not privy to the internal politics, so I don’t know which is the case
dmitriid 4y ago
So many words to avoid the hard truth: web apps suck, and "we might have closer-to-native experiences" is bullshit. Because, see my comment on Android which already supposedly has these "close to native experiences".