4 ms·

The issue was not "Where were the aircraft". The controller knew where they were at all times. (And they do have GPS, They also have ADSB, and ground based pos

The issue was not "Where were the aircraft". The controller knew where they were at all times. (And they do have GPS, They also have ADSB, and ground based position detection, and, and, and..)

bagels 4y ago
Time 1:54, Tower: “Southwest 708, confirm on the roll?” They don't know if Southwest was moving?
- hef19898 4y ago
  ATC is run by humans, planes are piloted by humans. The whole environment is highly controlled and regulated. And highly complex, and as this incident shows, one mistake in the whole chain, even a little one, can literally kill hundreds of people. This is nothing one can solve by throwing even more sensors and technology in, and have that run by ChatGPT or something. Highly trained people with the right amount and kind of technology are the solution. Edit: Sensors and stuff tell you were aircraft is, not what the human pilots are going to do when within the aloted period of time they have to do whatever they are cleared to do. Hence, you do the logical thing and ask them.
  - account42 4y ago
    That humans are in charge of ATC and flying the planes doesn't mean that there can't be automation to assist them and cover mistakes. Poor visibility should not ever be a factor when we can have sensors that show exactly where the plane is on the ground. And yes we are definitely at a point where machine learning can predict the likely actions based on the human communication and warn if the predicted path could lead to a collision. The point is to have multiple safty systems (inclduing the human operators) so that one mistake doesn't kill hundreds of people because there are secondary systems to catch it.
- paranoidrobot 4y ago
  The aircraft were at all relevant times broadcasting their position using ADSB. The controller had at least one screen displaying their positionx probably several. It may fuse multiple data sources. They may also have been able to see the Southwest aircraft, although maybe not clearly or only as lights. Despite this it can be difficult to judge the speed of an object at long distances under less than ideal circumstances and at night without a long observation period. So yeah they knew where they were but not the acceleration. It's also worth pointing out that the controller may have been in sudden stress due to realising the aircraft were too close, and so may have made a call that they already knew the answer to.

The issue was not "Where were the aircraft". The controller knew where they were at all times. (And they do have GPS, They also have ADSB, and ground based position detection, and, and, and..)

bagels 4y ago

Time 1:54, Tower: “Southwest 708, confirm on the roll?” They don't know if Southwest was moving?

hef19898 4y ago
ATC is run by humans, planes are piloted by humans. The whole environment is highly controlled and regulated. And highly complex, and as this incident shows, one mistake in the whole chain, even a little one, can literally kill hundreds of people. This is nothing one can solve by throwing even more sensors and technology in, and have that run by ChatGPT or something. Highly trained people with the right amount and kind of technology are the solution. Edit: Sensors and stuff tell you were aircraft is, not what the human pilots are going to do when within the aloted period of time they have to do whatever they are cleared to do. Hence, you do the logical thing and ask them.
- account42 4y ago
  That humans are in charge of ATC and flying the planes doesn't mean that there can't be automation to assist them and cover mistakes. Poor visibility should not ever be a factor when we can have sensors that show exactly where the plane is on the ground. And yes we are definitely at a point where machine learning can predict the likely actions based on the human communication and warn if the predicted path could lead to a collision. The point is to have multiple safty systems (inclduing the human operators) so that one mistake doesn't kill hundreds of people because there are secondary systems to catch it.
paranoidrobot 4y ago
The aircraft were at all relevant times broadcasting their position using ADSB. The controller had at least one screen displaying their positionx probably several. It may fuse multiple data sources. They may also have been able to see the Southwest aircraft, although maybe not clearly or only as lights. Despite this it can be difficult to judge the speed of an object at long distances under less than ideal circumstances and at night without a long observation period. So yeah they knew where they were but not the acceleration. It's also worth pointing out that the controller may have been in sudden stress due to realising the aircraft were too close, and so may have made a call that they already knew the answer to.