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I truly cannot see the connection between ESR's criticisms in that essay, and the subject matter of the OP article. Can you you please add some clarifying conte

I truly cannot see the connection between ESR's criticisms in that essay, and the subject matter of the OP article. Can you you please add some clarifying context?

SergeAx 4y ago
Let me just quote it for you: " If we fall away from meritocracy – if we allow the SJWs to remake us as they wish, into a hell-pit of competitive grievance-mongering and political favoritism for the designated victim group of the week – we will betray not only what is best in our own traditions but the entire civilization that we serve". s/SJWs/Marxists/
- mustacheemperor 4y ago
  I'm not seeing the connection between the specific ideological groups Raymond is criticizing, and anyone in the OP submission. Are you bucketing the author of this article with the people Raymond is criticizing? That connection seems so broad that anyone calling for any systemic change of any kind in the tech space could be likewise bucketed, which seems unreasonable. Aside, I don't think that was Raymond's intent with the essay, where he employs some very specific examples of what groups/ideologies he is criticizing. I'm asking for context, one quote from the article I already read is not providing it. It's only confusing me further. I did not understand your perspective after reading that article, so you quoting one line of it that seems especially salient to you from your perspective is not helping me understand you. Breaking down the acronym in his essay, I don't really see the connection between the "social justice" advocacy he is specifically criticizing, and the advocacy in the article for worker rights / class equality. And to be clear, I'm really doing my best not to voice any opinion for/against Raymond's own views in that essay or the author's views in the OP submission - I just truly cannot understand why you are drawing this comparison between the subject matter of each article.
  - SergeAx 4y ago
    I am not bucketing, but showing analogies, using the most prominent and at the same time controversial idea from OP that engineers should deny teaching their peers and lower-grade engineers, writing documentation and otherwise undermine the whole meritocratic makers culture.
    - mustacheemperor 4y ago
      Can you please explain your analogy, then? What do you view as analogous between these two commentaries and why? Edit: I think you provided half the analogy in this reply, but I can't perceive the connection to Raymond's article or understand why you are drawing that connection. To reuse your quote, what is the connection between engineers refusing to "go the extra mile" as described in the OP, and the creation of "a hell-pit of competitive grievance-mongering and political favoritism for the designated victim group of the week"?
      - SergeAx 4y ago
        Both Marxists and SJWs (in the narrow meaning of the word, although I think that Marxists are part of SWJs) want to destroy the engineering culture. OP is attacking it directly, painting it as "free labor for entities that are trying to cut their wages".

I truly cannot see the connection between ESR's criticisms in that essay, and the subject matter of the OP article. Can you you please add some clarifying context?

SergeAx 4y ago

Let me just quote it for you: " If we fall away from meritocracy – if we allow the SJWs to remake us as they wish, into a hell-pit of competitive grievance-mongering and political favoritism for the designated victim group of the week – we will betray not only what is best in our own traditions but the entire civilization that we serve". s/SJWs/Marxists/

mustacheemperor 4y ago
I'm not seeing the connection between the specific ideological groups Raymond is criticizing, and anyone in the OP submission. Are you bucketing the author of this article with the people Raymond is criticizing? That connection seems so broad that anyone calling for any systemic change of any kind in the tech space could be likewise bucketed, which seems unreasonable. Aside, I don't think that was Raymond's intent with the essay, where he employs some very specific examples of what groups/ideologies he is criticizing. I'm asking for context, one quote from the article I already read is not providing it. It's only confusing me further. I did not understand your perspective after reading that article, so you quoting one line of it that seems especially salient to you from your perspective is not helping me understand you. Breaking down the acronym in his essay, I don't really see the connection between the "social justice" advocacy he is specifically criticizing, and the advocacy in the article for worker rights / class equality. And to be clear, I'm really doing my best not to voice any opinion for/against Raymond's own views in that essay or the author's views in the OP submission - I just truly cannot understand why you are drawing this comparison between the subject matter of each article.
- SergeAx 4y ago
  I am not bucketing, but showing analogies, using the most prominent and at the same time controversial idea from OP that engineers should deny teaching their peers and lower-grade engineers, writing documentation and otherwise undermine the whole meritocratic makers culture.
  - mustacheemperor 4y ago
    Can you please explain your analogy, then? What do you view as analogous between these two commentaries and why? Edit: I think you provided half the analogy in this reply, but I can't perceive the connection to Raymond's article or understand why you are drawing that connection. To reuse your quote, what is the connection between engineers refusing to "go the extra mile" as described in the OP, and the creation of "a hell-pit of competitive grievance-mongering and political favoritism for the designated victim group of the week"?
    - SergeAx 4y ago
      Both Marxists and SJWs (in the narrow meaning of the word, although I think that Marxists are part of SWJs) want to destroy the engineering culture. OP is attacking it directly, painting it as "free labor for entities that are trying to cut their wages".