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>so one thing developers would notice right away is abysmal JavaScript performance That's actually a good thing! If a substantial chunk of iOS users would use

>so one thing developers would notice right away is abysmal JavaScript performance That's actually a good thing! If a substantial chunk of iOS users would use third-party browsers without JS JIT, then webdevs would be forced to better optimize their sites, because the perf ceiling would be lower on these browsers. This then would lead to stellar performance for those who stick with Safari which does have JIT! Kind of how using an M1 is so good today, because there's still a large number of Intel machines out there, so devs can't yet afford releasing software that's only usable on M1 from a cpu/energy point of view.

lxgr 4y ago
Not sure if you’re kidding, but if not – why would users switch in the first place, if that means abysmal performance?
- meindnoch 4y ago
  Because Google would be pushing it hard? E.g. when you click a link in the YouTube app, it doesn't open it in Safari, rather it shows you a "helpful" dark-pattern prompt about opening it with: - Chrome (mind you, I don't have it installed, so this would send me to the AppStore) - the "Google" app (again, not installed) - Safari (which does not open Safari, rather an in-app WKWebView, so that Sundar can still milk your precious eyeballs) - and finally at the bottom the "Default browser app" (this is what you want) Of course, there's no setting to save this choice once and for all, so this is done each and every time you try opening a link in the YouTube app. Wait, actually, I'm 99% sure it would suddenly remember your choice if you had installed one of their browsers. From that moment they would duly open all links in Chrome/Google, without this annoying prompt. I bet every Google app does this on iOS to get you install their crap. Disgusting practice.
  - saagarjha 4y ago
    “Safari” has always opened in Safari for me.
    - enkrs 4y ago
      They're AB testing. Safari used to open Safari for me, but with a new phone now I too get the menu as described above.
  - kitsunesoba 4y ago
    Google is incredibly aggressive in promoting Chrome yes, but every time I've seen "Safari" as an option in a Google app it isn't WKWebView, but SFSafariViewController which is for all intents and purposes real Safari — it's essentially an out-of-process Safari tab with its own separate cookies, storage, etc. Apps using it can't snoop on your browsing session and they can't dig around in your cookies, etc from standalone Safari.
    - kergonath 4y ago
      It’d be useful to see the difference clearly as a user. Personally I try really hard not to use any in-app browser because I have no clue how trustworthy the developer is (except for Facebook and Google, for which the answer is “absolutely not”).
      - saagarjha 4y ago
        SFSafariViewController is very distinct. Apps can't really change its UI at all.
  - CGamesPlay 4y ago
    > Of course, there's no setting to save this choice once and for all, so this is done each and every time you try opening a link in the YouTube app. To be clear, the one in GMail does have a "remember this" setting, and it doesn't work.
  - dontlaugh 4y ago
    This and the ads is why I use YouTube in Safari now. It's annoying, as websites always have worse UX than native apps.
  - rekoil 4y ago
    > Because Google would be pushing it hard? E.g. when you click a link in the YouTube app, it doesn't open it in Safari, rather it shows you a "helpful" dark-pattern prompt about opening it with: Chrome Ironically the reason this dark pattern exists is because Apple refused to implement support for user-controlled URI handlers in the first place.
kgeist 4y ago
>performance In 2021, Microsoft added the "no JIT" option to Edge for additional security [0], and here's the quote in their blog post: >We see that most tests see no changes with JIT disabled. There are a few improvements and regressions, but most tests remain unchanged. Anecdotally, we find that users with JIT disabled rarely notice a difference in their daily browsing [0] https://microsoftedge.github.io/edgevr/posts/Super-Duper-Secure-Mode https://microsoftedge.github.io/edgevr/posts/Super-Duper-Sec...
- lxgr 4y ago
  Ah, good point – Apple has this too, on iOS [1]! [1] https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2022/07/apple-expands-commitment-to-protect-users-from-mercenary-spyware/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2022/07/apple-expands-commitm...

lxgr 4y ago

Not sure if you’re kidding, but if not – why would users switch in the first place, if that means abysmal performance?

meindnoch 4y ago
Because Google would be pushing it hard? E.g. when you click a link in the YouTube app, it doesn't open it in Safari, rather it shows you a "helpful" dark-pattern prompt about opening it with: - Chrome (mind you, I don't have it installed, so this would send me to the AppStore) - the "Google" app (again, not installed) - Safari (which does not open Safari, rather an in-app WKWebView, so that Sundar can still milk your precious eyeballs) - and finally at the bottom the "Default browser app" (this is what you want) Of course, there's no setting to save this choice once and for all, so this is done each and every time you try opening a link in the YouTube app. Wait, actually, I'm 99% sure it would suddenly remember your choice if you had installed one of their browsers. From that moment they would duly open all links in Chrome/Google, without this annoying prompt. I bet every Google app does this on iOS to get you install their crap. Disgusting practice.
- saagarjha 4y ago
  “Safari” has always opened in Safari for me.
  - enkrs 4y ago
    They're AB testing. Safari used to open Safari for me, but with a new phone now I too get the menu as described above.
- kitsunesoba 4y ago
  Google is incredibly aggressive in promoting Chrome yes, but every time I've seen "Safari" as an option in a Google app it isn't WKWebView, but SFSafariViewController which is for all intents and purposes real Safari — it's essentially an out-of-process Safari tab with its own separate cookies, storage, etc. Apps using it can't snoop on your browsing session and they can't dig around in your cookies, etc from standalone Safari.
  - kergonath 4y ago
    It’d be useful to see the difference clearly as a user. Personally I try really hard not to use any in-app browser because I have no clue how trustworthy the developer is (except for Facebook and Google, for which the answer is “absolutely not”).
    - saagarjha 4y ago
      SFSafariViewController is very distinct. Apps can't really change its UI at all.
- CGamesPlay 4y ago
  > Of course, there's no setting to save this choice once and for all, so this is done each and every time you try opening a link in the YouTube app. To be clear, the one in GMail does have a "remember this" setting, and it doesn't work.
- dontlaugh 4y ago
  This and the ads is why I use YouTube in Safari now. It's annoying, as websites always have worse UX than native apps.
- rekoil 4y ago
  > Because Google would be pushing it hard? E.g. when you click a link in the YouTube app, it doesn't open it in Safari, rather it shows you a "helpful" dark-pattern prompt about opening it with: Chrome Ironically the reason this dark pattern exists is because Apple refused to implement support for user-controlled URI handlers in the first place.

kgeist 4y ago

>performance In 2021, Microsoft added the "no JIT" option to Edge for additional security [0], and here's the quote in their blog post: >We see that most tests see no changes with JIT disabled. There are a few improvements and regressions, but most tests remain unchanged. Anecdotally, we find that users with JIT disabled rarely notice a difference in their daily browsing [0] https://microsoftedge.github.io/edgevr/posts/Super-Duper-Secure-Mode https://microsoftedge.github.io/edgevr/posts/Super-Duper-Sec...

lxgr 4y ago
Ah, good point – Apple has this too, on iOS [1]! [1] https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2022/07/apple-expands-commitment-to-protect-users-from-mercenary-spyware/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2022/07/apple-expands-commitm...