7 ms·

Actors Say They’re Being Asked to Sign Away Their Voice to AI

70 points by leotravis10 4y ago

cyanydeez 4y ago
I guess, at least they'll be paid.
jafo1989 4y ago
"I started out as Roadrunner. Meep!" "You mean meep meep?" "Nah, they only paid me to say it once. Then they doubled it up on the soundtrack. Cheap bastards."
akomtu 4y ago
Years ago, in a thread about copyright, I left a grumpy comment on how RIAA would copyright your voice and then charge you for using it. The grumpy oracle in me was right. Now imagine the future where all employment contracts are plagued with a "voice & image" clause that tells you to grant a perpetual, non-revokable, transferrable, sub-licenseable and royalty-free right to your your voice and image.
- HerbMcM 4y ago
  Perpetual and non-revokable are such eldritch words for how common they are in contracts. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m78gYyTrG7Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m78gYyTrG7Y
stubish 4y ago
We are hitting the awkward transition period between the actor being the person performing the script in front of a microphone and/or camera and someone doing the performance at a keyboard, directing computers to create an emotive performance. It seems only a matter of time before actors are only walking the boards in live performances or in retro media. Not surprised they are pissed.
- not_math 4y ago
  Actors are much more than just talents, by which I mean being able to carry emotions, being charismatic and delivering lines in the way a director wants it. There is an undeniable human aspect to it that AI won't ever be able to replace. Sure, it'll probably be an important part of the industry, but saying all future media is going to be 24/7 AI generated content like that Seinfeld twitch stream is a pretty bleak view of the future. We watch movies because we try to connect with people and share our feelings with humans. I can't relate to an AI.
  - rcme 4y ago
    > There is an undeniable human aspect to it that AI won't ever be able to replace. Why do you think an AI could not replicate this? AI has shown a remarkable ability to achieve things once thought impossible for an algorithm.
    - ihatepython 4y ago
      I wonder if an AI would become obsessed with creating Human Intelligence (HI)
    - pwdisswordfishc 4y ago
      Celebrity culture, the ability to refuse a job, character traits suggested by or shared with the actor… can't wait until cookie-cutter AI slaves replicate all of that.
  - tluyben2 4y ago
    > won't ever be able to replace Humanity is recent in the cosmos, modern computing and AI are not 100 years old. You think your statement will hold in 1000 or 10000 years? You obviously believe the human brain is something supernatural which I do not (in fact, the past 10 years of AI boosts kind of convinced me our brain mechanism is vastly simpler than we thought; it’s just a complex, overarchitected implementation), but even believing that, we are just beginning to scratch the surface. I think it can do a convincing simile within years, at max decades from now. Something you cannot tell apart on the screen or audio. You might not even be told it is an AI.
kylehotchkiss 4y ago
something about “narrated by Morgan freeman” makes movies a lot more compelling. a clone of his voice with AI would not have the same effect on me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
eddiewithzato 4y ago
Yep, they did it with Darth Vader. It was an AI voice. Then you have them using CGI mark hamil as Luke. Actors need to all get together and never sign away their image and voice rights unless they get paid handsomely each time someone consumes the content. It cannot be a one time payment.
1letterunixname 4y ago
It's theft of ability to make income by training their replacement. Unionize (SAG?) and lobby to pass laws against it. Hollywood actors still have money for lobbyists as long as they don't knifenose themselves by letting control over their likeness and IP rights slip away.
- euroderf 4y ago
  > theft of ability to make income by training their replacement This happens to software developers on a regular basis, doesn't it ? Tired: replacing you with a lower-paid intern. Wired: replacing you with a lower-paid intern who got pretty handy with A.I. at university.
  - account42 4y ago
    It's going to happen a lot more as automation continues. But the destruction of certain trades is only a problem when it means that the profits from the more effecient production are captured by a few while the people made redundant are left in the cold - but that is not how things will have to work. I only hope that sooner rather than later the response will be societal reform instead of just more bullshit jobs that only exist because we have made it so that people need jobs to survive. At some point we will have to realize that making sure everyone has a 40 hour job is not reasonable or needed.
    - euroderf 4y ago
      The standard working week should drop to 35h yesterday and 32h tomorrow. 15$/hour will grease the wheels.
hoseja 4y ago
Good.
valdiorn 4y ago
This is starting to sound eerily similar to that BoJack Horseman plotline, where he won an Oscar for a movie he never acted in, because he signed away his likeness and the director just used a 3d model of him because he was always too drunk to be on set. But in all honesty though, this could be great news - imagine not needing to do recall shoots because the dialogue was bad, and you can fill in a few sentences with this technology instead. Of course, it will be abused and used to not compensate actors for their work properly. But if it develops rapidly I could imagine games and animation using "stock voices" in their productions, just like designers often use stock imagery. I'm sure someone is happy to sign away their voice for a few grand, and provide it to a stock voice library.
- westurner 4y ago
  S1M0̸NE (2002) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simone_(2002_film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simone_(2002_film) Frankenstein. Her (2013) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Her_(film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Her_(film) She's too smart for you anyway. Upload (2020, 2022) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upload_(TV_series) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upload_(TV_series) She buys in game credits for his existence. Faust / The Little Mermaid: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faust#Cinematic_adaptations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faust#Cinematic_adaptations "Final cut, Suit!" - Billy Walsh, Entourage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_recurring_Entourage_characters#Billy_Walsh https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_recurring_Entourage_ch... Final cut privilege: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_cut_privilege https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_cut_privilege : > typically reluctant
- kup0 4y ago
  "signing away a voice for a few grand" I sure hope not. That is equal to a few pennies in the grand scheme of things. Someone signing away their voice (not that I agree anyone ever should, for any reason) should require enormous compensation in return at a minimum.
  - valdiorn 4y ago
    How is signing away your "voiceprint" to be used for automatic speech generation any different than people recording lines for national transport systems, for example? They spend a couple of weeks in a recording booth, recording every number "one/two/three..." and every placename on the map, as well as dozens of announcements. you may have never heard of Emma Clarke, but if you live in the UK you've heard her voice a thousand times: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emma_Clarke https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emma_Clarke Imagine if instead of having to record every number, placename, announcement, she could just read a short script, and then every possible message could be autogenerated from that. the end result would be the same for her, but much less work. Now think about models who do photoshoots. They get paid for individual photoshoots, just like Emma got paid for providing her voice for that one particular customer (the TFL). But if you can't afford custom model photos for your website/brochure, you can go to a stock image bank and just find some decent photos. You may not have heard of András István Arató but I'm sure you know his face: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hide_the_Pain_Harold https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hide_the_Pain_Harold Extend these two concepts to voiceover, and you arrive at the fact that "voiceprint stock libraries" are a guaranteed eventuality. Emma and Andras were both willing to sell their voice and image to someone. In Andras' case, he doesn't even know who the end-user is. Instead of just choosing from a set of Andras stock photographs, you might also purchase a license to his voice, and use it to overdub your advertisement. - because someone, maybe not you, but someone, will be happy to take a few grand and let people use their voice, just like people sell their photos to stock libraries.
Barrin92 4y ago
The concerning issue here isn't the AI technology because that's not what's being bought/sold. If that was the case they could use anyone's voice or create a synthetic one. Pay close attention that what's going on is that technology is used to take control of a person's identity and their likeness, that's where the value in actors voices is. People are required to hand over their own identity to even obtain a job. This is actually nothing less than servitude. Imagine if it was someone's body instead of their likeness that needed to be handed over to an employer. A voice actor selling the rights to their voice to a company is akin to a laborer selling rights to their hands. I'd honestly say we very quickly need an inalienable right to one's own likeness.
nicksortun 4y ago
Of interest: Musician Holly Herndon has trained a model with her voice. Interesting project. www.thefader.com/2021/07/14/holly-herndon-holly-plus direct: https://holly.mirror.xyz/54ds2IiOnvthjGFkokFCoaI4EabytH9xjAYy1irHy94 https://holly.mirror.xyz/54ds2IiOnvthjGFkokFCoaI4EabytH9xjAY...
dan_hawkins 4y ago
Looks like we're halfway to fully selling rights to the whole image of an actor predicted in the move "The Congress" [0] (Do yourself a favor though and watch first half only.) [0] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1821641/reference/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1821641/reference/

70 points by leotravis10 4y ago

I guess, at least they'll be paid.

jafo1989 4y ago

"I started out as Roadrunner. Meep!" "You mean meep meep?" "Nah, they only paid me to say it once. Then they doubled it up on the soundtrack. Cheap bastards."

akomtu 4y ago

Years ago, in a thread about copyright, I left a grumpy comment on how RIAA would copyright your voice and then charge you for using it. The grumpy oracle in me was right. Now imagine the future where all employment contracts are plagued with a "voice & image" clause that tells you to grant a perpetual, non-revokable, transferrable, sub-licenseable and royalty-free right to your your voice and image.

HerbMcM 4y ago
Perpetual and non-revokable are such eldritch words for how common they are in contracts. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m78gYyTrG7Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m78gYyTrG7Y

stubish 4y ago

We are hitting the awkward transition period between the actor being the person performing the script in front of a microphone and/or camera and someone doing the performance at a keyboard, directing computers to create an emotive performance. It seems only a matter of time before actors are only walking the boards in live performances or in retro media. Not surprised they are pissed.

not_math 4y ago
Actors are much more than just talents, by which I mean being able to carry emotions, being charismatic and delivering lines in the way a director wants it. There is an undeniable human aspect to it that AI won't ever be able to replace. Sure, it'll probably be an important part of the industry, but saying all future media is going to be 24/7 AI generated content like that Seinfeld twitch stream is a pretty bleak view of the future. We watch movies because we try to connect with people and share our feelings with humans. I can't relate to an AI.
- rcme 4y ago
  > There is an undeniable human aspect to it that AI won't ever be able to replace. Why do you think an AI could not replicate this? AI has shown a remarkable ability to achieve things once thought impossible for an algorithm.
  - ihatepython 4y ago
    I wonder if an AI would become obsessed with creating Human Intelligence (HI)
  - pwdisswordfishc 4y ago
    Celebrity culture, the ability to refuse a job, character traits suggested by or shared with the actor… can't wait until cookie-cutter AI slaves replicate all of that.
- tluyben2 4y ago
  > won't ever be able to replace Humanity is recent in the cosmos, modern computing and AI are not 100 years old. You think your statement will hold in 1000 or 10000 years? You obviously believe the human brain is something supernatural which I do not (in fact, the past 10 years of AI boosts kind of convinced me our brain mechanism is vastly simpler than we thought; it’s just a complex, overarchitected implementation), but even believing that, we are just beginning to scratch the surface. I think it can do a convincing simile within years, at max decades from now. Something you cannot tell apart on the screen or audio. You might not even be told it is an AI.

kylehotchkiss 4y ago

something about “narrated by Morgan freeman” makes movies a lot more compelling. a clone of his voice with AI would not have the same effect on me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

eddiewithzato 4y ago

Yep, they did it with Darth Vader. It was an AI voice. Then you have them using CGI mark hamil as Luke. Actors need to all get together and never sign away their image and voice rights unless they get paid handsomely each time someone consumes the content. It cannot be a one time payment.

1letterunixname 4y ago

It's theft of ability to make income by training their replacement. Unionize (SAG?) and lobby to pass laws against it. Hollywood actors still have money for lobbyists as long as they don't knifenose themselves by letting control over their likeness and IP rights slip away.

euroderf 4y ago
> theft of ability to make income by training their replacement This happens to software developers on a regular basis, doesn't it ? Tired: replacing you with a lower-paid intern. Wired: replacing you with a lower-paid intern who got pretty handy with A.I. at university.
- account42 4y ago
  It's going to happen a lot more as automation continues. But the destruction of certain trades is only a problem when it means that the profits from the more effecient production are captured by a few while the people made redundant are left in the cold - but that is not how things will have to work. I only hope that sooner rather than later the response will be societal reform instead of just more bullshit jobs that only exist because we have made it so that people need jobs to survive. At some point we will have to realize that making sure everyone has a 40 hour job is not reasonable or needed.
  - euroderf 4y ago
    The standard working week should drop to 35h yesterday and 32h tomorrow. 15$/hour will grease the wheels.

hoseja 4y ago

Good.

valdiorn 4y ago

This is starting to sound eerily similar to that BoJack Horseman plotline, where he won an Oscar for a movie he never acted in, because he signed away his likeness and the director just used a 3d model of him because he was always too drunk to be on set. But in all honesty though, this could be great news - imagine not needing to do recall shoots because the dialogue was bad, and you can fill in a few sentences with this technology instead. Of course, it will be abused and used to not compensate actors for their work properly. But if it develops rapidly I could imagine games and animation using "stock voices" in their productions, just like designers often use stock imagery. I'm sure someone is happy to sign away their voice for a few grand, and provide it to a stock voice library.

westurner 4y ago
S1M0̸NE (2002) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simone_(2002_film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simone_(2002_film) Frankenstein. Her (2013) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Her_(film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Her_(film) She's too smart for you anyway. Upload (2020, 2022) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upload_(TV_series) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upload_(TV_series) She buys in game credits for his existence. Faust / The Little Mermaid: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faust#Cinematic_adaptations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faust#Cinematic_adaptations "Final cut, Suit!" - Billy Walsh, Entourage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_recurring_Entourage_characters#Billy_Walsh https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_recurring_Entourage_ch... Final cut privilege: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_cut_privilege https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_cut_privilege : > typically reluctant
kup0 4y ago
"signing away a voice for a few grand" I sure hope not. That is equal to a few pennies in the grand scheme of things. Someone signing away their voice (not that I agree anyone ever should, for any reason) should require enormous compensation in return at a minimum.
- valdiorn 4y ago
  How is signing away your "voiceprint" to be used for automatic speech generation any different than people recording lines for national transport systems, for example? They spend a couple of weeks in a recording booth, recording every number "one/two/three..." and every placename on the map, as well as dozens of announcements. you may have never heard of Emma Clarke, but if you live in the UK you've heard her voice a thousand times: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emma_Clarke https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emma_Clarke Imagine if instead of having to record every number, placename, announcement, she could just read a short script, and then every possible message could be autogenerated from that. the end result would be the same for her, but much less work. Now think about models who do photoshoots. They get paid for individual photoshoots, just like Emma got paid for providing her voice for that one particular customer (the TFL). But if you can't afford custom model photos for your website/brochure, you can go to a stock image bank and just find some decent photos. You may not have heard of András István Arató but I'm sure you know his face: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hide_the_Pain_Harold https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hide_the_Pain_Harold Extend these two concepts to voiceover, and you arrive at the fact that "voiceprint stock libraries" are a guaranteed eventuality. Emma and Andras were both willing to sell their voice and image to someone. In Andras' case, he doesn't even know who the end-user is. Instead of just choosing from a set of Andras stock photographs, you might also purchase a license to his voice, and use it to overdub your advertisement. - because someone, maybe not you, but someone, will be happy to take a few grand and let people use their voice, just like people sell their photos to stock libraries.

Barrin92 4y ago

The concerning issue here isn't the AI technology because that's not what's being bought/sold. If that was the case they could use anyone's voice or create a synthetic one. Pay close attention that what's going on is that technology is used to take control of a person's identity and their likeness, that's where the value in actors voices is. People are required to hand over their own identity to even obtain a job. This is actually nothing less than servitude. Imagine if it was someone's body instead of their likeness that needed to be handed over to an employer. A voice actor selling the rights to their voice to a company is akin to a laborer selling rights to their hands. I'd honestly say we very quickly need an inalienable right to one's own likeness.

nicksortun 4y ago

Of interest: Musician Holly Herndon has trained a model with her voice. Interesting project. www.thefader.com/2021/07/14/holly-herndon-holly-plus direct: https://holly.mirror.xyz/54ds2IiOnvthjGFkokFCoaI4EabytH9xjAYy1irHy94 https://holly.mirror.xyz/54ds2IiOnvthjGFkokFCoaI4EabytH9xjAY...

dan_hawkins 4y ago

Looks like we're halfway to fully selling rights to the whole image of an actor predicted in the move "The Congress" [0] (Do yourself a favor though and watch first half only.) [0] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1821641/reference/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1821641/reference/